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Dear lists and Dennis - I'm replying to all because you (Dennis) obviously decided to reply to all. Just two things before people pile in! (1) I did not draw any artificial contrast between doctors and nurses - most OH practitioners are nurses and of course there should be more qualified OHAs out there with access to the colleagues and facilities they need. I can comment from a medical perspective, being one, but I feel it would be presumptuous of me to comment from a nursing viewpoint. (2) Who should be responsible for training? - the universities - those with schools of medicine or nursing, or courses in occupational hygiene - would be very happy to train more OH practitioners. And the professional bodies (eg FOM/GMC for doctors) oversee specialist qualifications. HSE does not need to play any role at all in this. But no university is going to commit resources to courses if they are not guaranteed students. Courses must be self-financing. Universities will only get students if HSE tightens up on businesses w.r.t OH provision, and businesses, in turn start funding their existing staff to go on courses and start expecting that they must employ practitioners who meet the specialist standards of the relevant bodies - GMC for Drs, NMC for nurses, I forget for hygienists. As regards the original query - there is no clear guidance to businesses on whether they should have an OHS at all, let alone what skill-mix! OH provision in the UK is almost entirely ad hoc and dependant on local factors and influences. Your original advice was, I am sure, very helpful to the enquirer in making her argument watertight. Regards to all - Kate >>> Dennis Macwilliam <[log in to unmask]> 08/11/02 19:59:53 >>> Kate, your contribution to the question 'when do I need an OHP' could be regarded as a legitimate response in a much wider debate, but the person who asked the question is still waiting for an answer! We are dealing with the here and now, not what if in some time in the future. I have myself raised the issue about what HSE should be doing with regard to qualifications of OH professionals. You rightly contrasted the situation with a number of other jobs, I made have made similar comparisons to gas fitters [CORGI Registration scheme enforced by HSE];asbestos contractors [formal approval scheme operated by HSE]; first aid workers [formal approvals given by HSC to first aid training organisations]; fork lift truck training organisations [formal approvals given by HSC to training organisations], and so on. I agree there is much inconsistency and I wish it were not so, but it appears that neither you or I have the ear of those who make HSE policy! I'm not entirely clear, though, why HSE should be made responsible for developing more OHPs; speaking personally, I believe you could get more bangs for your bucks if there were more practising OHNs! but that is my own view and not HSE's. As you also rightly say, demand creates its own supply, and there is a huge, unmet demand for more OH professionals - both OHPs and OHNs. So who should be responsible for training them? My organisation is cutting back on its own training budget otherwise it will not be able to meet its own travel and subsistence bill for Inspectors doing their job - going out and inspecting and enforcing at the workplace I'm sending this response to you directly and not via the discussion forum, because this discussion group is monitored by others in HSE who do not approve of operational inspectors joining in - other than to spout official HSE -speak. Regards Dennis M