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I have been somewhat saddened to read the apparent "differences" between those who have an interest in 'the ground beneath our feet'. As one who first started going underground for both archaeological, and geological interests, and the sheer thrill of it back in the late 1940's, (and I hope by giving my age away I will not be subject to ageist remarks), and when mining historians, achedemics, archaeologists, and geologists were very thin on the ground, and speleology hadn't been invented, those of us who dared to venture into dark recesses had to make up guidelines as we went along. Then there was no NAHMO, no associations for Caving groups, none of the plethora of guideline information available today. And yet there were those of us who saw our explorations of our mining heritage as a privilege to reveal to the world the mysteries of the underground, and provided many of our museums with the first examples of mining artefacts, properly extracted and recorded. There was of course the cowboys. Those who seemed set only upon drunken destruction. I remember a wonderful system full of the most magnificent gypsum flowers which were smashed to oblivion, the Bass blue label bottles left in their place. Somehow I could have expected that in the 40's, but not today. My retirement has allowed me to return to that which I left behind in my youth. I have been suprised to note, even with the guideline recommendations which now exist, that there are still serious problems, and such guidelines are ignored, even by NAHMO member groups. When I recently challenged one group, I was called a troublemaker which led to my disassociation. I not a qualified archaeologist, or speleologist, or achedemic, but I do know the difference between right from wrong, and will not have my integrity abused. As far as I am concerned the NAHMO guidelines are excellent, (I just wish there could be greater emphasis on safety) and I believe member groups, especially those who join to take advantage of NAHMO insurance, should have to show that they are carrying out the recommendations with full implementation. To close, whilst debate is of the essence, the way forward is to work together despite our differences, and to challenge those who are in flagrant breach of the most basic of guidelines wether from Caving Associations or Mining History Groups. regards, Trevor