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This is not my field at all. However perhaps I can make a few comments usefully. 1. From reading about mythology many years ago, I recall that there are a number of Indo-European gods, which were classified described as hammer gods. I think this may have included the German Odin, latin Juppiter, Greek Zeus, and Indian Indra (?). Perhaps they were all associated with metal working, which was no doubt regarded as a relatively 'magic' activity. it may be useful for you also to look at other mythologies. 2. On a visit to a site in north Wales, Peter Crew showed members of Historical Metallurgy Society an Iron Age anvil, or rather half of one. This was merely a large boulder. The other half had probably been removed for continued use as an anvil after it broke. 3. The description of nimbus clouds as like an anvil refers to a relatively modern blacksmith's anvil and is purely descriptive of its shape. I do not know when iron anvils came into use. Since these clouds may be thunder clouds, their association with hammer gods is however perhaps not inappropriate nevertheless. 4. One of the lectures at the launch of the book Furness Iron a year or two back was on iron in the Scottish Highlands. It was stated that the chieftain's smith was quite a high ranking member of society in a Highland clan. He was apparently making weapons with bloomery iron, with iron ore as his raw material. I am not sure who the speaker was. Peter King, 49, Stourbridge Road, Hagley, Stourbridge West Midlands DY9 0QS telephone 01562-720368 ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Wood <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 12 April 2002 12:54 Subject: Re: Ancient metal-working and mythology > Mark Hall wrote: > > > Having learned Old Norse from them both, have you read a variety of > > pieces by John Lindow and Carol Clover on Thor and his symbolism? While > > you can't rule out a linkage to metal working, there are other aspects > > to his symbolism that link to Old Norse society. > > Indeed there are - I'm certainly not saying Thor is only a metalworker! > He's a much more rounded figure than that, but the metalworking side, which > appears to be present, is not generally acknowledged. I haven't seen > anything by Lindow or Clover - any references would be appreciated. > > > > So, you totally discount the scenes in Snorri's EDDA on the creation of > > Thor's hammer? > > Plus, have you seen the smith's burial assemblage from Kilmanheim (sp?) > > gaol in Dublin? > > I really don't consider the hammers from that assemblage to be short > > handled. > > There are many myths and stories which contradict one another. Some say > Mjollnir is made of stone, for instance. Myths do not have to be consistent > and different stories relate different aspects of the nature of people, > deities and artefacts - especially magical ones. You have the additional > factor that practically all the written tales we have of the Norse myths are > late, not penned until the Christian era. Stories are often invented that > explain something the origins of which are lost and in the process convey > other ideas, of a non-mundane nature. > > I haven't seen the Kilmainham Gaol collection, but I wasn't saying Mjollnir > was definitely simply a smith's hammer, merely that it is suspicious that it > is short handled. Not all smith's hammers are short-handled, of course, > especially the lighter ones and sledges, but the main hammers are. > > > > I don't recall where Thor's clouds were described as anvil shaped---is > > this from an English translation, or in the original Old Norse? > > Neither - I was refering to the popular description of these clouds which > also happen to have an association with Thor. > > Regards, > > Chris Wood > Norwich > England