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Andrew, barrett, all I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one, but i'd like to make a point none the less! Could I please quote you both. Andrew - "If science is really science, it will not contradict itself" Barrett - "Science stands alone. It is a way of making sense of things and its methods have been well described for many years" Science is not just science. It is not universal. It changes all the time. Years ago tonsils were always taken out because "science" regarded it as a necessary procedure for recurrent tonsillitis. Today modern "science" suggests it is not necessary - This is a contradiction. Years ago science suggested that babies should be given iron fortified food to aid proper health and growth. Now it has been proven that lactic acid bacteria is the only bacteria present in the infants gut to protect it from harmful bacteria - of which iron is a perfect breeding ground for! I could go on! Call it a contradiction or advancement your choice, but this happens all the time! Science comes up with a theory, years later it is not uncommon for it to contradict it! On the same note, research in the alternative therapies has provided us with a new look at the way we treat back pain. I am ot talikng about disproven therapies, but regognised therapies. Again call it what you, want - contradiction or advancement. But who cares? If a certain therapy helps a patient recover from back pain then it is all for the better! Barrett, on the strength on this and my points on how science is contradictory - and please do not take this as a personal comment - do you not think you are being a little selfish to the people you are trying to cure and do not succeed with? You openly admit that you " don't have what you would call an "open mind" about many of the therapies floating around out there" Would opening your mind not make you a better therapist? It sure has me! I know you can't wait to get your teeth stuck into me on this one, but before you do, please write a little more directly to my points. I see no need for references. I would like to know what Barrett thinks of my points - can't wait for that beer mate!!!!!!! -----Original Message----- From: - for physiotherapists in education and practice [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Andrew Tindall Sent: 12 December 2001 09:30 To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Core Guru Cognitive Dissonance Dear Graeme, you said "Because their particular science, whether it be the science of chiropractic, osteopathy, physiotherapy etc, is different! Their theories are different, their treatments are different!" If science is really science, it will not contradicy itself. It will be true no matter who it is quoted by! Andrew