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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

A bit of the answer to my own question:  there is a chapter on Saint Denis
in Colette Beaune, The birth of an ideology:  myths and symbols of nation
in late-medieval France (U of California Press, 1991).  Beame (p. 17)
mentions prayers offered to Martin, Denis & Remigius as patrons of the
Frankish 7 then the French kingdom.

Louis IX's cult was promoted by his descendants.

Tom izbicki

At 09:01 AM 11/16/2001 -0700, you wrote:
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Tom Izbicki <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >How are these things determined?
>
>good question.
>
> >Long-standing cult?
>
>certainly necessary, but hardly sufficient.
>
> >Some decree,
>
>issued by whom?
>
>when?
>
> >...lists neither Dennis or Martin.  Instead she lists Joan of Arc,
> Therese of
>Lisieux & Our Lady of the Assumption.  Allowing for change over time, do some
>patrons fall out of favor or get set aside?
>
>i don't believe that i've ever heard of Martin as "patron" of France --which
>doesn't mean anything, obviously.
>
>surely the whole question of a patron of "France" must be a very late notion,
>indeed, since the entity in question is just that.
>
>comment a dire "patron of France" in medieval latin?
>
>Joan, Threse, etc. all smack of 19th c. investments, to me (corrections
>welcome).
>
>perhaps recent scholarship has modified/revised the view that Denis owed his
>special place to his association/exploitation by the monarchy --from the time
>of the Merovingians, but esp. under the Carolingians and, most especially, by
>the middle Capetians, the great boost being given by Suger (how does he speak
>of Denis viz-a-viz the "realm," specifically?  i can't recall).
>
>i'd be surprised to find that the concept was explicitly stated --in any
>country-- in the early or high middle ages, and belongs instead to early
>modern times, at the earliest.  which is not to say that specific monarchs in
>specific countries over time did not have and patronize (as it were) specific
>saints and use/exploit their popularity and prestige to their own ends.
>eventually, someone came up with the term "Patron of X."
>
>just idle thoughts, obviously.
>
> >i would be particularly interested in any examples concerning Sta. Barbara!
>
>well, that's easy: Santa Barbara is the Patron Saint of California.
>
>best from here,
>
>christopher
>
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Thomas M. Izbicki
Collection Development Coordinator
Eisenhower Library
Johns Hopkins University
3400 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
Telephone:  410-516-7173
Fax:  410-516-8399

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