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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Now let me have a crack at answering my own question: can it have to do witdoes saintly specialization relate to the rise of guilds? presumably you cant have a patron saint of miners, weavers, etc. until you have a group that identifies themselves with their occupation. have any of the learned list members looked into this? meg >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >How are these things determined, indeed? >I am rather tired of seeing the statement that >"x" is patron saint of "y" projected back to >the earliest middle ages! has any work been done >on "specialization" of saints? i would be >particularly interested in any examples concerning >St. Barbara! >Meg >>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >>How are these things determined? Long-standing cult? Some decree, as with >>recent selections to be honored as doctors of the church? I ask this in >>part because Rosemary Ellen Guilley's The Encyclopedia of the Saints (Facts >>on File, 2001) - which I am reviewing - lists neither Dennis or >>Martin. Instead she lists Joan of Arc, Therese of Lisieux & Our Lady of >>the Assumption. Allowing for change over time, do some patrons fall out of >>favor or get set aside? >>Tom Izbicki >>At 01:06 PM 11/16/2001 +0100, you wrote: >>>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]> >>>To: <[log in to unmask]> >>>Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2001 6:17 AM >>>Subject: Re: [M-R] Sv: [M-R] saints of the day 11. November >>> > >>> > Is Saint Martin in fact the patron of France? I >>> > thought it was Saint Denis. >>> > >>> > MG >>> >>>Dear Marjorie and List Members, >>> >>> I have found St. Martin called a patron saint of France in a number of >>> sources. For example, >>> >>>the PATRON SAINTS INDEX http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/indexsnt.htm >>>"patronage: against impoverishment, against poverty, alcoholism, beggars, >>>Burgenland, cavalry, equestrians, France, geese, horse men, horses, >>>hotel-keepers, innkeepers, quartermasters, reformed alcoholics, riders, >>>soldiers, tailors, vintners, wine growers, wine makers " >>> >>>and the Index of Saints http://users.erols.com/saintpat/ss/ss-index.htm >>> >>>"Saint Martin is venerated at Tours. He serves as patron of armorers, >>>beggars, cavalry, coopers, domestic animals, France, geese, girdlers, >>>glovers, horses and horsemen, infantrymen, millers, innkeepers, soldiers, >>>tailors, wine growers and wine merchants (because his feast falls just >>>after the vendange), and wool-weavers (because he divided his cloak) >>>(Roeder). He is invoked against drunkenness, storms, and ulcers (Roeder). " >>> >>>What I am unsure about is when he came to be considered a patron saint of >>>France. >>> >>>Any ideas? >>> >>>Thanks, >>>Marina Vidas >>> >>> > > > Martin of Tours (d. 397) Martin has over the >>> > > centuries been one of the >>> > > > most-loved saints of western Christendom. He was >>> > > born in Pannonia in >>> > > > 316/317 (modern Szombathely in Hungary), the son >>> > > of non-Christian parents. >>> > > > A typical military brat, he moved when his father >>> > > was restationed, and >>> > > > spent his childhood in Pavia. There he learned >>> > > about Christianity, and >>> > > > decided to become a monk---a plan thwarted by his >>> > > dad, who made Martin >>> > > > become a soldier, stationed in Gaul. After his >>> > > famous cloak episode, >>> > > > Martin was baptized, although he did not leave the >>> > > army for another twenty >>> > > > years (in 356). Afterwards, Martin lived for >>> > > several years as a hermit, >>> > > > founding three monasteries in the process >>> > > (including Liguge, the first >>> > > > monastery in Gaul and perhaps the oldest monastery >>> > > in all Europe). He >>> > > > became famous as a missionary, and in 371 became >>> > > bishop of Tours. For the >>> > > > last 26 years of his life he spread monasticism, >>> > > evangelized, and won such >>> > > > regard that at his burial an enormous crowd >>> > > (including 2000 monks) came to >>> > > > pay their last respects. >>> > > >>> > > >>> > ********************************************************************** >>> > > To join the list, send the message: join >>> > > medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> > > to: [log in to unmask] >>> > > To send a message to the list, address it to: >>> > > [log in to unmask] >>> > > To leave the list, send the message: leave >>> > > medieval-religion >>> > > to: [log in to unmask] >>> > > In order to report problems or to contact the list's >>> > > owners, write to: >>> > > [log in to unmask] >>> > > For further information, visit our web site: >>> > > >>> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>> > >>> > >>> > __________________________________________________ >>> > Do You Yahoo!? >>> > Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals >>> > http://personals.yahoo.com >>> > >>> > ********************************************************************** >>> > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>> > to: [log in to unmask] >>> > To send a message to the list, address it to: >>> > [log in to unmask] >>> > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>> > to: [log in to unmask] >>> > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>> > [log in to unmask] >>> > For further information, visit our web site: >>> > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>> >>>********************************************************************** >>>To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>>to: [log in to unmask] >>>To send a message to the list, address it to: >>>[log in to unmask] >>>To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>>to: [log in to unmask] >>>In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>>[log in to unmask] >>>For further information, visit our web site: >>>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >>Thomas M. Izbicki >>Collection Development Coordinator >>Eisenhower Library >>Johns Hopkins University >>3400 N. Charles Street >>Baltimore, MD 21218 >>Telephone: 410-516-7173 >>Fax: 410-516-8399 >>********************************************************************** >>To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >>to: [log in to unmask] >>To send a message to the list, address it to: >>[log in to unmask] >>To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >>to: [log in to unmask] >>In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >>[log in to unmask] >>For further information, visit our web site: >>http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html >Margaret Cormack [log in to unmask] >Dept. of Philosophy and Religion fax: 843-953-6388 >College of Charleston tel: 843-953-8033 >Charleston, SC 29424-0001 >********************************************************************** >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME >to: [log in to unmask] >To send a message to the list, address it to: >[log in to unmask] >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion >to: [log in to unmask] >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: >[log in to unmask] >For further information, visit our web site: >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html Margaret Cormack [log in to unmask] Dept. of Philosophy and Religion fax: 843-953-6388 College of Charleston tel: 843-953-8033 Charleston, SC 29424-0001 ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html