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----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Waspe" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 9:22 PM Subject: Re: MSc Emergency care Mike Having re-read Ian's message I think that you have missed the point with regard to this course being managerial and not clinical. Looking at the modules it strikes me that they err towards putting pre-hospital/Emergency care into the context of the wider Health Community, an environment in which we will undoubtedly practice in the none to distant future. <MH> this is a factor nursing still hasn't got it's head round, often 'management' is seen as a thing that SIsters and charge nurses 'do' and know about and students and more junior nurses will be critiscised ifthey show 'too much' interest in management type things, which can include things such as the policies and procedures that impact on everyone's clinical practice I have just completed the part time BSc in Paramedic Sciences at Hertfordshire and that course, attended by working Paramedics, covered many of the "managerial" aspects of working in "Health". The key focus however was the patient as an individual with rights and privileges not a set of signs and symptoms subjected to procedures. Equally important however was the fact that at the end of it all my colleagues and I understand more now about how to improve our practice on the streets beyond just the clinical skills we fought hard to achieve over the years. <MH>If one looks at the difference between training and educating health professionals, it's often the social sciences and thinngs like organisational behaviour and management which make the difference If Paramedics and Technicians are to develop as the emergency arm of the Health Service and not the health arm of the emergency services* and maximise patient care we must have an evidence base to work from. This base will come from pre-hospital research led by Paramedics and others in pre-hospital medicine who are equipped with the appropriate skills gained from higher education. <MH> i'd agree with that sentiment, in ten years time one would espect the research about PHC to be done by PHC practitioners not by medical academics and A+E docs ( not that there isn't a place for some of that, don't get me wrong on that) I would not for one moment dismiss the need to improve our clinical skills, especially those of patient assessment but if emergency care is to move forward and ambulance folk want to be at the cutting edge then we need to look over the horizon. <MH> very true, the paramedic profession is lucky that it doesn't have the baggage that nursing has ;-) Steve * apologies for borrowing this phrase from the ASA report into the Future of Ambulance Services in the UK ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Bjarkoy To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: Re: MSc Emergency care It is unfortunate that as many courses this is delivered as a managerial course and not clinical. Mike Bjarkoy