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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture The basic principle was that, assuming the criteria for just defensive warfare were met (legitimate authority, defense of justice as cause, last resort etc.), the individual soldier still had the responsibility not to kill out of vengeance, hatred etc. (Augustine's letter to Count Boniface etc.) but rather out of love of justice. This is why Norman soldiers after the Battle of Hastings were interrogated by priests who asked first if the soldier had killed anyone and, if so, about the circumstances. The priests then assigned appropriate penance. So the soldier was not dispensed but rather, it was assumed that seldom did one meet all the criteria perfectly and thus retain one's innocence entirely. Some sin was nearly unavoidable when carrying out political and military duties. The challenge for the bishop and priest was to instruct, exhort, teach the Christian faithful who had responsibilities for carrying out justice (including warfare) to do their duties, even though it meant risking sin, without becoming lackadaisacal. That Christian theology recognized how hard it was to have great power and avoid abusing it does not mean that abuses were to be winked at but neither dare the recognition that abuse, at least at the highest levels where the most power is involved (lethal force in capital criminal justice and in warfare), is almost inevitable permit one to ignore the abuse. Hence the assignment of penance. Readers of this post are undoubtedly saying, sure, sure, how idealistic can you get. You can't tell me that medieval clerics and laypeople made such fine distinctions let alone took them seriously in the heat of the exercise of power. Perhaps they did so relatively seldom, but I am aware of at least on exchange between a 15thc Benedictine monkand a reforming bishop that sheds light on this. The bishop wanted the monk to undertake leadership for the reform of monasteries in his diocese. The monk refused, saying he was aware how easy it is to abuse power and he'd rather simply avoid exercising authority and power than risk sinning by abusing it and ending up in hell. The bishop taunted him as a coward, saying, soldiers show their scars, meaning, yes, undertaking the exercise of power means you risk being wounded by sin and often are wounded, i.e., do sin. Your scars are the proof of that. I've described this exchange in ch. 6 of my book _Fifteenth-Century Carthusian Reform_ (1992). How typical was this? Probably not very typical, but both partners in the exchange do have a fund of exempla to illustrate their respective positions. Dennis Martin >>> [log in to unmask] 07/17/01 11:44 AM >>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture I seem to remember a discussion some time back about Christian soldiers and the salvation of their souls. I've checked the archives and turned up zip. Does anyone remember this? The discussion centered on the problem of how a soldier, whose job it is to kill people in opposition to the God's commandment "Thou shalt not kill," has a kind of dispensation for his actions. I know Thomas Aquinas et al. have made arguments about "just" wars, but this discussion was a bit different as it centered on the individual. I'm floundering, but it's all pretty fuzzy now. Any help? Clinton Atchley, Ph.D. Department of English and Foreign Languages Box 7652 Henderson State University Arkadelphia, AR 71999 Phone: 870.230.5276 Email: [log in to unmask] URL: http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/atchlec ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the messge: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html