 |
 |
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Dear Tom, The expert on Friar Clyn is Dr Bernadette Williams of Trinity College, Dublin and as I know she's a list member I'll be very careful with my comments! My impression is that the references to Sarabaites in both Clyn (1309) and in the Annals of Innisfallen (1311) are to contemporary disputes within the Franciscan Order in general rather than to specific ethnic tensions within the Irish province. This tension seems to have been particulary pronounced at the end of the 13th century and in the first three decades of the fourteenth century, and while Clyn certanly refers to it, I have not found evidence that disagreements over the observance of poverty were a contributing factor. In the fifteenth century however it is clear that one of the reasons for the success of the Observant reform in Gaelic Ireland was that it enabled the Gaelic friars to escape the control of the Anglo-Irish section of the Province. The constitutional arrangements devised by the Order in general to protect the rights of the Observant reformers were, in the Irish context, a useful way for the Gaelic section to achieve effective independence. This is not to say that the Obserant movement was not a genuine movement of spiritual reform within the Irish Friars, it just had other more mundane uses as well! Colman O'Clabaigh, OSB Glenstal Abbey Ireland To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [M-R] Soraboita > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > I am reading Walsh's book on Richard Fitzralph, and I wonder whether this > ties in with the divisions between Irish & Anglo-Irish in Ireland in the > fourteenth century. could Clyn be on one side of the divide throwing > bricks at religious on the other? > Tom Izbicki > > > At 09:42 PM 5/19/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture > > > >At 01:30 PM 5/19/01 +0100, you wrote: > >>In the Annals of Friar John Clyn of Kilkenny, Ireland, an entry, in 1309, > >>states Pullulabat secta Soraboitarum, presidente Clemente Papa. > >>What or who are the Soraboita? > >> --Bernadette Williams > > > > The word itself may be equivalent to "Sarabites," mooching "holy > >men" > >excoriated in the rules of the Master and of Benedict, part of the infamous > >duo of Gyrovagues and Sarabites whose examples real monks should not > >follow. > > But to which group Friar John is applying this epithet can only be > >guessed from context. > > --John Howe, Texas Tech > > > >********************************************************************** > >To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > >to: [log in to unmask] > >To send a message to the list, address it to: > >[log in to unmask] > >To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > >to: [log in to unmask] > >In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > >[log in to unmask] > >For further information, visit our web site: > >http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > > ********************************************************************** > To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME > to: [log in to unmask] > To send a message to the list, address it to: > [log in to unmask] > To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion > to: [log in to unmask] > In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: > [log in to unmask] > For further information, visit our web site: > http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html > ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html