medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture Torie Reed writes of John the Baptist, 'he was, really, the first _alter Christus_'. Indeed, though could it not be argued that Jesus was, at first, the _alter Johannes_? Our attention was drawn, earlier in this discussion, to the evidential claim that oral transmission in the first two centuries implicitly supported a tradition among his contemporaries of Christ's virgin birth. What seems to me equally interesting is that other evidential threads appear to complicate the picture seriously. For example, how long after the death of Jesus did the Johannine and Christian parties run in parallel, or indeed in competition? What was the role of Jesus' family (on both sides), and particularly of Mary, in shaping emerging traditions? Was there a contest between groups around Mary and Peter and what effect did that have? What was the interplay arising from tension between Samaritan and Jewish groups (not to mention Judaeans and Galileans)? - about which we hear much less than the tensions between Jews and Gentiles. The textual and iconographic references discussed here over the last several days can be seen on one level to support 'traditional' interpretations; on another to reflect subtle uses of such material to set up particular claims as to who Jesus was and how others were to be regarded in relation to him - John the Baptist crucially, perhaps. It's likely that medieval studies have much to offer towards such questions. But I write from ignorance, sensing only that if I was more knowledgeable about the early church, I would understand so much better the medieval material I work with. These are interesting discussions. Thanks, folks! Graham **************************************** Dr Graham Jones Lecturer in English Topography University of Leicester Centre for English Local History Marc Fitch Historical Institute 5 Salisbury Road Leicester LE1 7QR United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)116 252 2764 Fax: +44 (0)116 252 5769 e-Mail: [log in to unmask] Web pages: http://www.le.ac.uk/elh/grj1 ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html