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medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture My thanks to those who have responded. My particular thanks to those who have glossed over my stupidities though, at the advanced age of 42, I no longer embarrass easily. The creation of demons is an intriguing point, but with this text we have another point -- is it an obstacle, I wonder? The 'sign of the cross' and belief in and observance of the Creed and the Paternoster are given by Martin as being an antidote to pagan 'spells', i.e. the everyday magic of peoples we nowadays regard as unsophisticated. I wonder if this was so at the time (6th century and surely unlikely? theology post-Augustine was already pretty advanced) or is Martin compromising in order to make himself simplistically intelligible to a lay audience (more likely? an interesting awareness of audience if so?)? It is interesting to see superstition combatted with superstition, if this is so. It is perhaps also important to point out that Martin's text (and indeed his life work) was not to convert -- that had already been done -- but rather to regulate the observance of the catholic faith, out there at the edge of the known world. In other words, a sort of sixth-century, catholic Wyatt Earp. I wonder if any among you would agree with me that combatting a 'pagan' piece of magic with a 'christian' equivalent does not amount to best practice? Angus, Oman P.S. My wife tells me I am actually 43 and have been for a while. Heck, any number above a trinity leaves me a bit lost (but I also sometimes have problems with the Trinity)! ********************************************************************** To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME to: [log in to unmask] To send a message to the list, address it to: [log in to unmask] To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion to: [log in to unmask] In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to: [log in to unmask] For further information, visit our web site: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html