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Ok ok I promised not to write in again but you people just make it far too interesting for me to resist. I picked up on the 'newness' theme precisely for the same reason as P Spicker. Ideas and concepts associated with JUP do have a history that needs exploring and incorporating. However it seemed to me that some of the responses seemed to imply that because in some senses it wasn't new it didn't need further exploration because 'it has been going on for 25 years' or similar sentiments. The point about filing cabinets was mine. Therefore I absolutely agree that the history of these ideas must be looked at again. What I don't understand is if you wanted to direct our attention to this (as everybody would surely agree is a good idea) why not just say so. Approaching this issue by 'scepticism of newness' just threw me on the wrong scent. The second part of P Spicker's message is, of course, absolutely correct. By reverting back to left and right I did not mean an over simplistic dictomy but that the old politics has the bad habit of being dogmatically opposed to each other. That is why I profoundly disagree with the last part of the message. Right now perhaps, the third way is more of a slogan but its potential goes far beyond since it is the only current political philosophy that seeks to INCLUDE valid points from both left and right. This is new and could well be much more than just a slogan. Errica woods sums up my thinking much better than I could myself when she says could JUP "become an ongoing interactive process, promoting social inclusion, developing citizen awareness and involvement, enhancing our culture. JUP's history, as a means of informing the present, might show us the lessons of past mistakes". This is what I was trying to get at when I talked about political as well as institutional joined-upness. I believe JUP can do these things and will work towards this goal. Right now JUP remains mostly ideas and concepts but with help from those like P Spicker and the rest with previous experience us 'newbies' have a good opportunity to get things closer to all of our ideals. Constructive criticism is vital of course but it will help no one just to slap a government down without trying to support its intentions and offering to develop solutions. Lets get behind JUP and make the damn thing work for everyone- it must be at least as good as anything we have tried before!