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That's funny, very very funny, indeed. Makes my speech sound like Pataphysics. Thank you. erminia On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:09:17 -0500, Jeffrey Jullich <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> Robin, > >la ragione per la qualesiete essendo iete essendo delirious è >perché avete provato ad opporre alla mia definizione precisa ed >immaculate di stupid. e di stupidity. (come essendo con acuto e >lento nella percezione mentale ed impressionabile) (così, leggere >per favore la mia lettera, prima di entrare in un frenzy delle >risposte incontrollate) un giro rapido delle definizioni (il colpo >chedelirious volete colpirli con) che è giusta una ripetizione di >esattamente che cosa ho detto. Inoltre, alas, quando il mondo >stupid e lo stupidity (con il relativo etymology latino >unquestionable) sono arrivato al vostro paese, era troppo ritardata >per voi per sostenere ma un uso storto puro di esso (dovuto le >dottrine mediche iniziate prima sui secoli continent da Greeks e >da Romans, che definiscono stupid come essendo non gli stessi >di pazzi. Di conseguenza per niente applicabile, ho dichiato, al >poet ed alla poesia) > >> On Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:00:22 -0000, Robin Hamilton >> <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >> >> >Erminia writes: >> > >> >" >> >Note on stupidity: etymologically (being Italian it comes easy to me, the >> >etymology of words: I am not trying to intellectualise the matter), it >> >comes from the Latin stupor (the being amazed). So to be stupefied, it is >> >to be subjected to the effects of something amazing which causes stupor. >> >" >> > >> >Alas, Erminia, there are two problems here. One is the Etymological >> Fallacy >> >(surely exploded since de Saussure was published early in the century) that >> >the current meaning of words can be explained by an appeal to their >> semantic >> >origins. >> > >> >But that aside, the etymology you propose is a little dubious. >> > >> >[With the usual reservations about first citation not necessarily being >> >first use, etc. ...] >> > >> >Both "stupid" and "stupidity" first appear in English in the same work, a >> >translation by the poet Robert Copland (fl. 1508-1547) of _The questyonary >> >of cyrurgyens, with the fourth boke of the Terapentyke [sic] or methode >> >curatyfe of C. Galyen_ by Guido de Cauliaco. This is published in England >> >in 1541, and has the following: >> > >> >"For the fyrste speake ouer lyghtly and to imprudently, ... and the other >> >are all togyther stupydes, sturdy, & lytygious." >> > >> > (defined by the OED under STUPID as: "3. Wanting in or slow of mental >> >perception; lacking ordinary activity of mind; slow-witted, dull.") >> > >> >... and >> > >> >"Nowe we must esteme the stupydyte or audacyte of the man. I say the >> >stupidite yf he thynke to say well and the boldnes yf he fele hym selfe >> >culpable to saye nothynge." >> > >> > (defined by the OED under STUPIDITY as: "4. Dullness or slowness of >> >apprehension; gross want of intelligence.") >> > >> >Copland's translation of Guido's work on Galen would seem to be a one- off, >> >as the next appearance of "stupidity" isn't recorded till 1568. Even more >> >surprisingly, "stupid" doesn't reappear before 1605. >> > >> >As there are a relative wealth of instances of "stupidity" recorded after >> >1568 and before 1605, it would appear that (counterintuitively) "stupidity" >> >was in fairly regular use +before+ "stupid". >> > >> >The OED [if we accept its authority here] gives separate etymologies for >> >"stupid" and "stupidity": >> > >> >STUPID: ad. L. stupid-us, f. stup-ere to be stunned or benumbed. Cf. F. >> >stupide (Rabelais), Sp., Pg. estúpido, It. stupido. >> > >> >STUPIDITY: ad. L. stupiditas, f. stupid-us: see stupid and -ity. Cf. F. >> >stupidité, It. stupidità. >> > >> >But enough of these modern inferences!! Much more fun is to be found >> >mousing around The Early Modern English Dictionary Database ( >> >http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/english/emed/emedd.html ). >> > >> >There are 25 examples recorded, so I'll only give a selection. >> > >> >Cotgrave in 1611 defines both words: >> > >> > Stupide: [Stupide, benummed, sencelesse; dull, blockish, lumpish; >> >amazed, appalled, astonied.] >> > >> > Stupidité. [Stupiditie, sencelesnesse; dullnesse, blockishnesse; >> >astonishment, amazement.] >> > >> >And (with a bow to Erminia) here's Florio in 1598: >> > >> > Stupidità, stupiditie, astonishment, amazement, dullnes, or priuation >> >of the sences, sodaine priuation or lacke of sence or feeling, benumming, >> >astoniednes, dulnes or a trouble of the minde vpon a sodaine feare, not >> >perceiuing. >> > >> >But enough of this stupidity ... >> > >> >Robin >> > >> >APPENDIX: >> > >> >As Robert Copland's poems aren't that easy to find, perhaps a sample might >> >be of interest? Yes? No? Anyway ... >> > >> > A complaynt of them that be to soone maryed >> > >> >For as moche as many folke there be >> >That desyre the sacramente of weddynge >> >Other wyll kepe them in vyrgynye >> >And wyll in chastyte be lyuynge >> >Therfore I wyll put now in wrytynge >> >In what sorowe these men lede theyr lyues >> >That to soone be coupled to cursed wyues >> > >> >Now am I in grete myschefe and sorowe >> >To soone I put my body in gage >> >I lyue in care/nyght/euen/and morowe >> >Lytell lacketh that I ne enrage >> >To be to soone maryed I layde my gage >> >Cursed be the tyme that I it euer knewe >> >The deuyll haue his parte of maryage >> >And of hym that me fyrste therto drewe >> > >> >My herte ryght yll dyd me counsell >> >To a yonge woman me for to same >> >To soone wedde there they dyd me compell >> >Wherfore I holde my selfe in fame >> >By god I swere and by his name >> >I wyll all louers clene dyscourage >> >That wolde not wt there wyll take them a dame >> >And put them selfe in suche domage >> > >> >Better it were to be a man sauage >> >Than to be take in that ylke lase >> >Gentell galauntes flee that passage >> >Besyde that waye loke that ye passe >> >Go out of that waye that wyll the chase >> >Go out of that waye or ye be loste >> >Go ye therfro/tourne ye your face >> >Go frome that waye to another coste >> > >> >Go ye thense my frendes I you praye >> >Go ye therfro I you do praye >> >Go ye frome that hote flambe of fyre >> >Go ye therfro as I you saye >> >Or ye wyll repente an other daye >> >Go ye therfro full loude I crye >> >Go ye fro the bonde of welawaye >> >Whiche is the arke of all folye ...