Quoting "david.bircumshaw" <[log in to unmask]>: > Ah, I see, Jeff . . . I try full-blown religion myself, every so often, btw, but never feel as though I belong there. But I love lighting candles in darklit churches, with a breath, a thought, and a silent prayer. One can but try! --------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess the (rather unstylish) "struggle" in me that this obstreperousness is coming out of is--- I ~am~ a practicing church-goer ("practicing," in all the senses of the word, as ~just managing to show up~ on a weekly basis can be its own challenge), with, locally, a somewhat visible presence in the church (they call that "ministerial," when you go public about it) by virtue of my reading at Mass up in the marble pulpit,--- so that more people know my face from there than I'm comfortable with, actually ("fame" is its own separate problem for me, as I don't like being approached by strangers and I think I suffer from --- I found the diagnostic label for it! --- "prosopoagnosia": I don't recognize faces well). That generates its own dilemmas, since my liberalism sort of splits me between causes celebres. Anyway,--- this one-foot-in/one-foot-out does much me conscious of the glaring ~omission~ of the religious in contemporary literature. Ashbery IV, whom you claim to know nothing about, for example, is reported by the New York Times to be--- a practicing Episcopal who shows up as a member at his Hudson country home's parish church! Literary criticism and our general assumptions about who's who and what's what in our totally cool post-modernity is utterly unprepared for these inconsistencies. The French painter, Yves Klein, one of my favorite examples, for example, if you know his work, --- his best known: blue monochromes in a pigment he actually patented --- your quintessential XXth cent. artist, at the end of his life presented as an ~ex voto~ offering a little box that he slipped through the gifts offering window of a convent of cloistered nuns, filled with emblems of his career, a block of Yves Klein blue pigment, gold, etc., and some little Thank You note devotional appreciation to a patron saint! I think it appeals to me to bring these elements to the surface because they're so ~taboo,~ too. Who I consider two of the topmost American poets, Susan Howe and Cole Swensen, have been filling their post-modernism with more and more frank material about--- Jesus {eek!} and Christology. They both, in fact, focussed on the same New Testament passage, where "The Risen Christ" tells Mary M. not to touch him ("Noli me tangere"), perhaps a denial holding some multi-dimensional poignancy for women writers. Swensen originally seemed to approach the material through a safer, distanced device: her good book ~Try~ focussed on Renaissance paintings (ekphrasis), which was this pretext that allowed her to describe and write "meditations upon" madonnas, pietas, etc. But her latest, ~Such Rich Hours~ now uses the Tres Riches Heures illuminated MS breviary to the same ends, . . . although with a somewhat wider historical sweep this time: Annunciations! At the same time, --- which is what fascinates me --- they're sort of cagey about this (embarassed?) and never spill over into the sort of rhapsodies or sentimentality that deform inspirational verse, that might definitely label them as oxymoronic Post-Modern Christian Poets (!). They still maintain their very staunch, intelligent thinky-ness, so it's not at all the sort of belly-up capitulation that the most frequently cited case, Eliot, went through, where a return to the church meant tossing out reason, in his poetry. I'm grateful that PoetryEtc is a safe haven and refuge where poets are able to work through these unpresentable transitional phases. I don't think I could talk about this on the larger American Lists. + :)