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Well one doesn't want to be bitchy about Rupert, what he does with Stride deserves a plaudit, but I've never taken to either his own poems or what seems to be his particular taste. As for using 'haibun' or any other kind of import it always makes me think of those Victorians who were so deft at Frenchified forms, like Alfred Austin for instance, the result comes out as a seeming irrelevance One certainly can think of examples where imposed imported forms work, like Empson, but they're the exceptions, I reckon. . I suspect your hunch about thinking in terms of poetry parts is on the lines of what happens in the mind-events of those who get married to discrete forms, however I also think your 'grip and release' phrase is getting very close to the essence of the real thing, it's very much about 'timing' plus a complete material awareness, I don't think there are proscriptions or prescriptions for it, only examples, if that makes sense. Quite proud in not being normal myself here, btw, it's a far more interesting way to be, despite the Chinese curses. Best Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Candice Ward" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: Definitions > Picking up on your Loydell reference, Dave: he writes haibun, doesn't he? > It's even more mysterious to me how poets structure those--whether they > think of only the "poetry parts" _as_ structured in the line-breakable > sense, for instance. I've never written one of these myself, but would > assume the alternating modes to have a grip-and-release effect on the mind > AND the line--at least that's how I'd probably experience it, but I don't > pretend to be normal. > > Candice > > > > The really curious thing about prose poetry is that the line breaks can and > > do matter, particularly between stanzas, otherwise what happens truly is > > prose. Rupert Loydell a little while back published an anthology of prose > > poetry and I was quite horrified when I read it as many of the pieces seemed > > blissfuly unaware of this necessity. I wouldn't dare to define it, I think > > it falls into the matter of our art being an 'art' not a science, so it > > comes down to 'feel'. > > > > Best > > > > Dave > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Printmaker" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 12:11 AM > > Subject: Definitions > > > > > >> *much chuckling* > >> > >> Well I feel a little better now. > >> If you guys cant agree on what free verse is, > >> what hope have I got? > >> > >> Its always the most fundamental question that spurs the > >> discussion. > >> You should thank the goddess for beginners with silly > >> questions. > >> > >> Matt said > >> "(If you decide to do away > >> with the line breaks altogether, you have prose poetry, > >> which a colleague of > >> mine insists is not poetry at all - but we've had the prose > >> poetry > >> discussion already.)" > >> > >> Well that was going to be my next question ... > >> > >> I'm inclined to confusedly agree with your colleague. > >> And as I was not here when this was discussed before, > >> and as its poetry and not egomaniacal ravings, > >> isnt it a legitimate topic? ;-) > >> > >> Josephine >