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I am starting being worried about one think: do we remember what satire is? I also do not agree about categories like "the best " and "the worst" set by crypto-fascist Yeats or anyone else. As for this quoted aphorism, Alison, may I remember the list that if there was one suffering from " passionate intensity" that sadly was him... So, how one should interpret this quote? Could have it been the product of an epiphanic understanding of the unnecessary of all human passions among which we have to enlist his fanatic republicanism which to me coincides with fascism.? I doubt it. I do not want to think that Yeats stands as an example of enlightening doubtfulness. Who was he talking about , then, when he referred to the passionate ones? Please, let's not remember what in the real political lives of our disgraceful nations authors such as Yeats, Pirandello, Pound stood for, otherwise we should secure down a cellar our entire stocks of books.... In these situations one must suspend judgement and pass a hand over ones' consciousness. Yeats, - do I need to remind you? - was a fanatic nationalist cultivating the idea of collectiveness culturally informed by one principle. It is not Yeats, sorry, who stands as an example of illuminating openness, or lack of passionate political intensity. Quite the opposite. I wish to congratulate those of you who in this tragic realities can establish what is good and what is bad, what is noble and what is mean, what is high and what is low, those of you who can discern and take sides, decide who is the victim and who is the persecutor. ----- Original Message ----- From: Alison Croggon <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2001 11:17 AM Subject: Re: R: Re: Afghanistan > Right now, I'm thinking a fair bit of Yeats' words that the "best lack all > conviction, while the worst / are fired with a passionate intensity" > (apologies if I've misquoted) which I never so poignantly saw the point of > - I used to think it was a cynical statement. > > Yes, life is symbolic of nothing, it is itself, and human beings seem very > eager to forget this. Perhaps it is too difficult to deal with. But I am > tired of symbols. > > A > > >Perhaps it is worth pointing out (on the subject of "symbolism") that the > >screams of children everywhere, now,(spoken of so pertinently by Dominic) > >express but are not for themselves >symbolic< of dreadful fear of mutilation > >& death: they are not yet (while they scream) "the ghosts of themselves" > >though perhaps "lifting distressful hands as if to bless"; but there _is_ a > >lot of very symbolic gesticulation going on, some of it on this list. I > >think heartfelt response would be more appropriate than threatening to dig > >an SKK rifle out of the garden to "shoot back" at a few local extremists or > >than throwing terms like "crucifixion" around rather wildly, as Robin points > >out. Marx himself, of course, wasn't above (or below?) gesticulating > >symbolically & frothing at the mouth, poor misunderstood genius. The trouble > >is that the gestures, the blarings of the politicians and attendant "media" > >are an accompaniment to actual horrors: drums & cymbals,war music that > >paradoxically causes forgetting of what is & has been happening. I don't > >think that even hoping for a later more peaceful species to replace us, or > >reflection on the bad manners of the dinosaurs, should or (better) can > >distract us from the pain of living now, though I do understand the symbolic > >despair of your words, Erminia. But why do you so easily assume that nobody > >has ever achieved "something different" & speak only of failure? This is > >close to idolizing History, which "to the defeated/May say Alas but cannot > >help or pardon". > >best > >Martin > > > > > Alison Croggon > > Home page > http://users.bigpond.com/acroggon/ > Masthead > http://au.geocities.com/masthead_2/ _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com