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----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin J. Walker" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: 26 September 2001 12:07 Subject: Re: Letter to a leftist friend/the real mystics/innocents Dear Martin / John Thank you for a challenging response | *PS I've read what you wrote, Lawrence, but I would hold fast to a | description of suffering children as innocents, not because they are never | mean or nasty, even murderous, but because of their lack of knowledge about | those features of their behaviour. I agree with you entirely This lack is or should be gradually | eroded by moral education (by experience & by teachers of whatever kind) | till one can no longer speak of innocence except in a limited sense such as | "innocent of this particular crime", I agree which I do suppose myself is true, say, | of a janitor in the Pentagon with respect to that institution's putative | crimes. Ah... I might disagree there. Though what you go on to say probably deals with some of my concern But justifying a crime or moral offence (like causing "collateral | damage") by devious arguments is always a culpable action devoid of | innocence, whether it's a general or a janitor speaking. I agree, however, | with your supposition of graded guilt or innocence: there are no absolutes | in this matter. _innocent_ has been used as a synonym of _civilian_ by the executives of our countries During the attacks upon Jugoslavia, NATO spoke of civilian targets as legitimate targets - a tv station for instance and a bridge with a bus on it. I opposed that and still do. Well, I opposed all of that, the alliance with gangsters, any military action, the kind of action, the remote bombing, the targeting of civilians; but I found the killing of civilians particularly reprehensible I take the same attitude to civilians in USA - or anywhere. It's a pity we haven't got a spare world where all the soldiers could be sent From the point of view of the person or organisation which sees itself at war with USA, and clearly somebody did, the Pentagon would be a legitimate target in terms which would be identical to USA govt's approach in making war & I recall Bush saying he will not distinguish between those who murder and those who provide their infrastructure - which would cover the Pentagon from the point of view of an enemy That's rules of engagement and targeting rather than morality L