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One religious point for Ali. Hafiz and Omar Khayyam both enjoyed alcohol. Were they not devout MUslims? Or did that proscription come general later. Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask] Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Douglas Clark wrote: > My Hafiz is also 'The Gift'. When I ordered it from Amazon I > checked out on all the Hafiz available there and it seemed > the sensible book to get. I really enjoyed reading it and > have just dug it out. Perhaps Ali could talk about Ladinsky's > translation and make more recommendations. (I no longer have > access to Amazon). > > One side-note is that I feel Rumi is very much over-hyped, except > in Andrew Harvey's 'versions'. Other opinions welcome. I feel > the myth has outshone the poetry. > > And currently I am re-reading Karem Armstrongs 'The Battle for God: > Fundamentalism in Christianity, JUdaism and Islam'. It is an absolutly > brilliant book probably superior to A.N.Wilson's 'God's Funeral' > which is also a must read. > > And finally I am going to have to go to the bookshop to track down > the religious beliefs of the Bushmen and the Australian Aborigines > to complete my education. (Karen Armstrong's 'The History of God' > fills in the later gap). I have looked at my volumes of Cavalli-Sforza > and Laurens van der POst without finding any concrete information, > and I dont trust Bruce Chatwin. Something to keep my inquisitive > brain alive for the future. > > > > Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask] > Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, Frank Parker wrote: > > > Ali and Douglas, > > > > Why not speak of Hafiz now? Now is the time to invoke those poets whose > > work/lives are a compass in a drudge of days. The copy of Hafiz I have > > is called THE GIFT, translations by Daniel Ladinsky. Can either of you > > recommend further reading? > > > > THE GIFT, how appropriate. Across the centuries, out of the rubble of > > history, among the outrages bloodied stones once called homes a Call for > > any with ears to hear, THE GIFT. > > > > > Everyone born into the world has a role in destruction > > > But within the ruins you must say; Where is the sober? > > Hafiz, tr. Ali Alizadeh > > Thank you, Ali! > > > > :fp > > *************** > > Frank Parker > > [log in to unmask] > > http://now.at/frankshome > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ALI ALIZADEH" <[log in to unmask]> > > To: <[log in to unmask]> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 11:22 PM > > Subject: Re: WTC > > > > > > > Now I get what you're saying. Thanks for clarifying your point - and > > as one of > > > Hafiz's followers I don't wish to dwell on this point any more than > > you do; his name > > > is too sacred to be associated with this modern and morbid situation. > > However, a > > > couplet from one of Hafiz's ghasels (in my on-the-spot and dorky > > translation) may be > > > relevant to the current situation, as the madness of revenge prepares > > to match the > > > horrors of terrorism: > > > > > > Everyone born into the world has a role in destruction > > > But within the ruins you must say; Where is the sober? > > > > > > or something to that effect. > > > > > > peace > > > > > > Ali > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > > From: Douglas Clark > > > Date: Thu 9/13/01 15:20 > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > Subject: Re: WTC > > > > > > I dont really want to talk about but Hafiz represents a Persian > > > love of life in contrast to the fundamentalists reaction to US policy. > > > > > > > > > > > > Douglas Clark, Bath, England mailto: [log in to unmask] > > > Lynx: Poetry from Bath .......... > > http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxdgdc/lynx.html > > > > > > On Thu, 13 Sep 2001, ALI ALIZADEH wrote: > > > > > > > At any rate, I still have no idea why you've dragged Hafiz into this > > horror. What > > > on > > > > earth does he have to do with fundementalism? > > > > > > > > Ali > > > > > > > > ---- Original Message ---- > > > > From: Douglas Clark > > > > Date: Thu 9/13/01 2:12 > > > > To: [log in to unmask] > > > > Subject: Re: WTC > > > > > > > > I thought I had said Hafiz was an example of civilisation. > > > > But 'rational thinking' I said. > > > > > > > > > >