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Re: Self-publication -- a costing.
I'll make this the last public post on this matter because I hate to read this sort of thing - eyes glaze over.  But out of idiot pride I'll finish up.

At 06:06 PM +0100 8/24/01, Robin Hamilton wrote:

Hm ... Think both Jobs and Gates ripped this.  Who "invented" the iconic
environment?  A Brit, wasn't it it?  Bit like
The Nation taking the credit for cracking The Enigma Machine.


XEROX developed the pictographic point and shoot floating cursor techne.  Jobs/ Apple took it from Xerox because they knew where to take the system.  If due to Brain Drain a typical Brit Anthony Burgess anti-tax language hieroglyphic translating wonk genius conjured the original Xerox system, well, the same sort of bloke revolted against King George 3, & etc.  Anyway, Xerox blew it.  They coulda been a contender.  All they are are copiers.  Guys like Michael McClure invented Mac.

The Nation taking the credit for cracking The Enigma Machine.


Are you referring to the Apache NATION?  Nazis were stumped by their language.
(Or was it Shoshone?)  Wild Bill and Cochise outwitted Hitler with that trick.
(We are stumbling into something very important here.)

Phoof -- eat your quiche.  I could write C programs,  I could write
sphagetti Basic [on a good day, with the wind behind me, I could even
stretch to machine code] -- what I +couldn't+ do was program in an "iconic
environment", either MAC or Gatesworld.

See!  You have proven that the following assertion assumption of mine is plain rrong:
At 11:26 AM -0400 8/24/01, Richard Dillon wrote:
It is the Mac which created the iconic environment which makes it possible for people like us to use a computer.


Richard, get your history straight -- sixties was Apple and Commodore
fighting it out for The Personal Computer Market.  Apple (and Steve Jobs)
won (before IBM joined the fight) -- but that was +well+ before Windows.


I don't know how I conveyed a different understanding of the history than this one.  But, my point is this:  The Mac was the first multi purpose, ambidextrous computer with the point and shoot iconic environment.  (Yes, yes, Commodore had something very smart with their Andy Warhol model but for some bizarre reason it only took root in Finland.)  It could do two things at once like the way Keats said a poet is smart.  But we must remember:  IBM & Microsoft&BeanCounters conducted a counterattack.  Apple made a marketing mistake at that point.

MACs +cost+.  Then and now.  MACs had/have a better OS, no argument, but ...


You spend your $1500.00 and you don't go into the continual upgrading of the memory.  It is less expensive to run the Mac as you go along.  Fewer if any repairs.  The total ergonomic package is just more intelligent no matter whatever whichway you look at it - especially if you don't play video games and want to put together a graphic or video product on the net or in the flesh.
IMHO>

Richard


 












Re: Self-publication -- a costing.Richard:

"
It used to be
"

What's your time-line on this?  I hit on computers in Glasgow in the
sixties, and THEN they were running the buggers on vacuum-packed bulbs.
Crazy, and they took up five rooms to run.  Problem was the cooling system.

"
 that the platform was called _The IBM_ type of computer.  This platform
begins its evolution with the _DOS_ language.
"

Then I went a bit dspsy, plugged back in via Sinclair's ZX80 [sic!] and the
Trash80 when it went Welsh (you could run OS9 on a Dragon 64), and [as
everyone did] switched to Atari when Dragon went bankrupt.

At some point, it occurred to me that trying to program in unix on a
stand-alone when 95% of the world was Gatesworld was a Bad Idea.  So I went
for IBM (cleap clones, usually)

"
Wintel is the term that replaced IBM Platform at a certain point.
"
MACs +cost+.  Then and now.  MACs had/have a better OS, no argument, but ...

"
It is the Mac which created the iconic environment which makes it possible
for people like us to use a computer.
"
Phoof -- eat your quiche.  I could write C programs,  I could write
sphagetti Basic [on a good day, with the wind behind me, I could even
stretch to machine code] -- what I +couldn't+ do was program in an "iconic
environment", either MAC or Gatesworld.

"
Then the ! Mac ! appears and its platform is based on proprietory technology
that cannot be appropriated or stolen by people like Gates.
"

Hm ... Think both Jobs and Gates ripped this.  Who "invented" the iconic
environment?  A Brit, wasn't it it?  Bit like
The Nation taking the credit for cracking The Enigma Machine.

"
(Gates does support the Mac OS with new software development.)  When you
open a Mac you see a far more sophisticated hardware setup
"

Uh.  DON'T do hardware.

"
It doesn't require the software that the IBM/Wintel/DOS
"

Hey, I've a REAL cool DOS joke, but I'm too tired at the moment ...

"
rooted platform employs to emulate the pictoral language Apple/Steve Jobs
launched in history with the Mac and earlier prototypes in the 1970s.
"
Richard, get your history straight -- sixties was Apple and Commodore
fighting it out for The Personal Computer Market.  Apple (and Steve Jobs)
won (before IBM joined the fight) -- but that was +well+ before Windows.

"
It is compelling how deeply people are invested in their computer on an
emotional basis.  Arguing about computers - strange thing to do, but we do
it.  I guess they really are extensions of our nerve/mind systems.
"

True.

ALL

too true.

"
You sound like you really do have your project under control.
"

Alas (alas!)  no. No. No. no ...

"
 And, no, I do not believe I know as much about setting up a magazine as you
do - or much else, for that matter.
"

Liar.  You're the professional in this area.  Don't self-deprecate.

Robin

(PS -- to everyone who's bored out of their skulls, I think Richard and I
better go backchanennel on this.  Hereafter.

D2)


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