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Dear List members, Yes the Latin text I sent out for this paragraph was butchered both by the cut and paste and by typographic error. Here is the full text Fratres insuper ipsius fraternitatis, de humili panno in retio et colore, non prorsus albo vel nigro, communiter vestiantur, nisi fuerit ad tempus in pretio per visitatores de consilio ministri ob causam legitimam et apertam, cum aliquo despensatum. Chlamydes quoquoe ac pelles, absque scollaturis, scissas vel integras, affibulatas tamen, vel patulas, ut congruit honestati, clausasque manicas fratres habeant supradicti. Sorores etiam chlamyde induantur, et tunica de huiusmodi humili panno factis, vel saltem cum chlamyde habeant guarnellum, seu placentinum, coloris albi vel nigri; aut paludellum amplum de canabo, sive lino, absque ulla crispatura consutum. Circa humilitatem vero panni et pellitones sororum ipsarum, iusta conditionem cuiuslibet earundum, ac loci consuetundinem poterit dispensari. Bindis et ligaturis sericis non utantur, pelles dumtaxat agninas, bursas de corio et corrigias, simpliciter absque serico ullo factas et non alias, tam fratres habeant, quam sorores, depositis caeteris (iuxta B. Petri Apostolorum Pincipis salubre consilium) vanis huius saeculi ornamentis. I apologize for the oversight in omitting Otfried Lieberknecht's input on guarnellum; that ends the doubt on the nature of the garment. I suppose one would call it a long gown ? something like a night shirt, than hangs down almost to the feet ? Thanks also to Brenda C.'s input on the form of the translation: Some comments in this regard, for those interested in discussing strategies of English translation of Latin texts <communiter> : commonly, either in the sense of in common or in the sense of normally, but not always. <humilis> : humble, because this is a key Franciscan ideal, to use "modest" would obscure the connextion to other Franciscan writings. <non prorsus>: not utterly / not completely, yes this latter is more usual in English; but how do we say not true black or white, for it seems to me, and I may be wrong, that "prorsus" refers to the intensity of the color rather than the completeness of distribution of color on the fabric? <propter> on account of, to distinguish it from the "for" in English which can be the translation of "enim", the dative, and "pro". Other terms [ligaturis, crispaturis], I stuck with the litteral meaning/form, which is more common in Ecclesiastical usages. In general my intent is to render a translation that is as much as it can be in English what the Latin author would have wrote if it was written in English rather than Latin; and for this reason I stick to cognates, whenever they still have identical meanings, even if such usage is not the 1st or 2nd dictionary definition today. I stick to word for word, and when this fails to idea for idea, as a methodology of translating, and that explains many differences from other modern strategies of translation. I do not think there is any value in dynamic equivalence or paraphrasing. <honestas> honesty / decency: yes in English the former today is often taken in a diverse sense; but here is used in the older general sense of uprightness, rather than the more specific modern sense of truthfulness in communication Sincerely in Christ, Br. Alexis Bugnolo