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Thanks, Marjie, for the interesting site ref. (http://www.microart.org/heritage/religiou/kirkham.htm ). looks like quite a substantial pile, even after the extensive Early Modern remodelings. the linked site on Rieveaulx is also quite nice; i especially appreciated the shot of the rare "tanning troughs," which i assume would have been essential for working on one's tan up there in foggy Yorkshire. must be an interesting history there: two fundations 10 or so years apart made the same bloak. the failure of the cistercian takeover was mentioned in the first post on this string, i believe, but not the reason(s) for it (if known). that business about C foundations on boundries is something that is(/was) batted around in French circles from time to time, though i don't know whether anyone has ever actually done a thorough study to see if it really holds up statistically; nor whether, if if was indeed a deliberate practice in France, it was also done in other countries. i've always assumed that the advantages of such locations were several: multiple lords --lay or ecclesiastical-- to hit up for donations and patronage, who might be particularly ameniable to giving property which had been disputed, perhaps for generations; a certain amount of freedom for the monks, holding property of ambiguous overlordship, able to play one side off against the other (cf. Walter Map).... i know that some places on the interface between the Eastern border of the diocese of Chartres and the Western border of the dio. of Sens (which region was also the _marche_ between the County of Chartres & the Viscounty of Etampes/Royal Domain) were quite astoundingly "subinfudated" between cappos from both regions, a situation which was not lost on the reformed (by St. Ivo) canons of the abbey of St. John of Chartres (no early cistercians in the dio. of Chartres, for some reason i'd give a [virtual] nickel to know). thanks again. best from here, christopher "mbloy" <[log in to unmask]> wrote: >I found a web site on Kirkham Priory - which turns out to be Augustinian and not Cistercian (at least to start with?) although the founder also founded Rievaulx. I don't know whether it lies at/near the boundaries of political/ecclesiastical entities - it's stuck in the middle of nowhere off the A64 (the York to Scarborough road) in North Yorkshire. It was in the archdiocese of York and sits firmly in Yorkshire so I guess that it's not near any boundaries although I'm happy to stand corrected on that! Maybe I should poke around in my collected trophies and find the guide book... http://www.microart.org/heritage/religiou/kirkham.htm Marjie [log in to unmask] ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%