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I think we need to face the unpleasant fact that, despite the fact that probably nobody on this list feels that America is a man with a gun, or that they would define themselves in such a way, that a lot of Americans and American institutions have gone out of their way and will continue to go out of their way, to portray such an image. What about the image of the Cowboy, so well invoked by President Reagan? What about Michael Dukakis trying to salvage his campaign by driving the tank? Oh, you will say, but it was unsuccessful, but who did win that election? War hero George Bush. Bill Clinton was the first President in decades with no military service, and he has been savaged and pilloried throughout his two terms for it. You'll say, well, he beat the War hero Bush and the War hero Dole. Would he really have done it if Ross Perot, another military man, hadn't taken a great percentage of the vote? Who are we about to choose from now? George Bush Jr., who has plenty of pictures on the wing of that fighter jet, and Al Gore, who did serve also in Vietnam. Look at all the cop shows on tv. In the movies. What is the current archetype--the renegage Dirty Harry/Sly Stallone/Die Hard Cop, who don't play by the rules and seeks justice out of the barrell of the gun. As we look around ourselves and thank God or providence for all the bounty and progress around us, we cannot deny it was taken and maintained by the gun. What did we do when Saddam Hussein and Milosovich got out of line? Talk to them or try to bomb them back into the stone age--a bit of language, along with 'we had to destroy the village in order to save it, that has passed into the vernacular. Search and destroy mission. Nuke it. Terminate with Extreme prejudice. Make him an offer he can't refuse. Rub out. One way ride. I remember the story told by a man who was in the Hitler Youth during the war. The Russians were closing in on Berlin (I belive this is in Cornelius Ryan's THE LAST BATTLE). People were hoarding food and stuff. He took his mother to a department store to get some of the last supplies. When the guy behind the counter demurred he pulled his pistol on him and robbed him. He was about 15-16. His mother said, when they left the store "You are a shameless boy! Using American gangster methods!" It is encouraging that the people coming forward on the list have come forward to refute this image of America as the man with the gun. Understand that there are plenty of people who are doing all they can to promote this image around the world for a variety of reasons and these people are Americans. Violence is American as cherry pie. America a man with a gun? May not be the first image I think of when I think of America--but then, who was George Washington? What did he and his boyz do when they thought King George was dissin' em? Chris Hayden >From: Zane Ivy <[log in to unmask]> >Reply-To: [log in to unmask] >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: National essence >Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 23:03:11 -0700 (PDT) > >Personally, I think the "car" defines America more >than guns do... > > >--- Jon Corelis <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > > > > > > > > America is a man with a gun. > > > > > > > > >________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > > http://www.hotmail.com > > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! >http://mail.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%