"The first list: ' poets who talk most about L= poetry' is not reliable: if Stead ever has it is has been to mock it. (or do you mean we 'pursue a right wing politics?)." I meant that all the poets in the list I gave have right-wing/conservative political views and/or a record of taking right-wing positions. I fail to see why this should be offensive to the poets mentioned - Stead, for instance, has been only too happy to be the public face of the right-wing education 'thinktank' the Education Forum, to assert support Rogernomics and to oppose electoral reform in public. I suppose he might prefer to be called centre-right, but it's certainly not outrageous to call him a right-winger. "The next list is not very helpful to you other than it is about as disparate a bunch as you could wish." As I pointed out when I gave it! I was not exactly trying to fill a hall of fame, though I am a fan of all the poets mentioned. I am sure Philip has access to all the standard anthologies and histories, I was trying to throw in a few surprises (though of course Smithyman would be a big part of any history worth its salt). God save poets from the anthologists, I guess I'm saying... "Te Kooti: there's never been a published collection of his writings--I wish there had been. That he is a poet is an invention of Leigh Davis." This statement is extremely annoying. Its arrogance explains why your millionaire mate Davis' book, which pillaged Te Kooti and Maori culture in the name of a third-hand postmodernism, has pissed off so many people here in Aotearoa. Davis didn't invent Te Kooti as a poet - what gives you the nerve to even say that? - he tried to assasinate him. Why don't you respond to Tina Engels-Schwarzpaul's extended critique of Davis' mess, which she gave the not-inappropriate name 'Between meaning and nonsense'? And if you were able to crawl from the wreckage of your Eurocentric mindset for a moment or two, you would be able to realise that one does not have to publish with Oxford University Press or be dismembered by Leigh Davis' word processor to be a 'poet.'As it happens, many of Te Kooti's poems have been published, and I have a folio of them I would be happy to make available to Philip. "Scott, since you are now connecting the University of Auckland English Department with poets who you say did (or did not in Michele's case) lock their doors while your mates got their heads cracked a couple of blocks away in the University Admin. building, and some people will know I work in the English Department, let me just say to all members of this list that the insinuations are malicious, unjust and have no basis in fact." I have no idea whether you locked yourself in your room, and I never said you did. What I do know is that you, unlike senior English department figures in other parts of the country, did not lift a finger to condemn the actions of the police and the uni administration. Nor, I understand, did you deign to join the junior staff in your department who courageously tried to fight a large funding cut that was threatening their jobs. All of these criticisms are outlined in the open letter that has been published in A Brief Description of the Whole World. No one has questioned the factual basis of these criticisms (critics of the letter have instead focused on the relevance of a person's political action, or rather inaction, on an asessment of their poetics) but you are most welcome to give it a go. If you can refute them, I will retract them. You should base any attempt to refute them on what I really say in that document, which you have had a copy of for some months now, not on any imaginary insinuations. Once again, I stress that I am not trying to turn this into a witchhunt, but rather build a useful discussion. Cya Scott X-Apparently-To: [log in to unmask] via web804.mail.yahoo.com X-Track: 1: 40 Organization: The University of Auckland Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:59:06 +1200 Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) X-MIME-Autoconverted: from Quoted-printable to 8bit by naga.mailbase.ac.uk id GAA02047 Subject: Re: reply to P Nicolayev From: "Wystan Curnow" <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] X-Unsub: To leave, send text 'leave poetryetc' to [log in to unmask] Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: [log in to unmask] Hello Scott, This is snake oil you'rr selling here. Philip take no notice. The first list: ' poets who talk most about L= poetry' is not reliable: if Stead ever has it is has been to mock it. (or do you mean we 'pursue a right wing politics?). See my previous email. The next list is not very helpful to you other than it is about as disparate a bunch as you could wish. Te Kooti: there's never been a published collection of his writings--I wish there had been. That he is a poet is an invention of Leigh Davis. Scott, since you are now connecting the University of Auckland English Department with poets who you say did (or did not in Michele's case) lock their doors while your mates got their heads cracked a couple of blocks away in the University Admin. building, and some people will know I work in the English Department, let me just say to all members of this list that the insinuations are malicious, unjust and have no basis in fact. Wystan > > > "This is very interesting. I have been New Zealand > Poetry with great > interest in the last weeks, and would appreciate any > recommendations and ===== "Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how could I try to doubt it? First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life... Philosophical problems occur when language goes on holiday. We must not separate ideas from life, we must not be misled by the appearances of sentences: we must investigate the application of words in individual language-games" - Ludwig Wittgenstein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%