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"Is Zionism an hysterical Jewish separatism?" Zionism is an excellant comparison to make! So is the ideology of the Black Muslims. Like radical feminism, they're both reactionary responses to very real oppressions. It's darned hard to argue against Zionism without being called an anti-Semite, it's darned hard arguing against radical feminism without being called a sexist beast (that's why I usually leave it for female anti-radical fem feminists to slug it out, when I can! "Manhood" according to A.D. is a social artifact, not a biological reality." OK, I'm listening, but what sort of social artifact spans so many cultures and epochs and contexts as Dworkin's sponge-like concept of 'manhood'? I would argue that it is a de facto piece of biologism. What are the criteria for its emergence out of a social context, if it is a social artifact? "She wants rid of male dominance, and the forms of gendered being it sustains... it's not the same as wanting men exterminated, or believing that desire or potential to commit rape is an inherent part of the male psyche and that therefore women will only be free when all men are either dead or placed under curfew." It's a bit like Christians who say 'we don't hate gays, we just hate what they do every day with other gays and what lots of their friends do and their lifestyle and most of the things they identify with and...' I mean, what's left to love? Dworkin defines men by reference to the concept 'manhood.' Hate 'manhood', hate men. It's interesting to note, here, that Dworkin has consistently worked alongside extreme right-wing bornagain Jesus freaks and crypto-fascists in opposing things like pornography. Perhaps this bloc is not as odd as it might at first seem? Cheers Scott Hamilton PS I help to edit a political paper and one recent article, or rather discussion piece, we featured was called 'Sex Workers of the World Unite'. It was written by a mate of mine, a woman who identifies as a materialist feminist, and attacks what she sees as the reactionary nature of Dworkin's stance on porn and the sex industry. I could post it, if you think it will contribute something to this debate. X-Apparently-To: [log in to unmask] via web804.mail.yahoo.com X-Track: 1: 40 Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:10:21 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Subject: Re: Plath and Dworkin From: "domfox" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> X-Unsub: To leave, send text 'leave poetryetc' to [log in to unmask] Reply-To: [log in to unmask] Sender: [log in to unmask] "Manhood" according to A.D. is a social artifact, not a biological reality. She wants rid of male dominance, and the forms of gendered being it sustains. I don't want to argue about whether this is a sensible, politically sound or philosophically coherent notion. I just want it understood that it's not the same as wanting men exterminated, or believing that desire or potential to commit rape is an inherent part of the male psyche and that therefore women will only be free when all men are either dead or placed under curfew. Is Zionism an hysterical Jewish separatism? - Dom ===== "Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how could I try to doubt it? First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life... Philosophical problems occur when language goes on holiday. We must not separate ideas from life, we must not be misled by the appearances of sentences: we must investigate the application of words in individual language-games" - Ludwig Wittgenstein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%