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Scott, Great to hear you edit or help on a political paper that discusses such things. I'd just like to say that Dworkin's positions on some things are at least thought provoking. Also, one of my closest personal friends was the Women's Project Worker at the Prostitutes Collective of Victoria for much of the early 1990s, and she certainly has Pornography by Dworkin on her bookshelf, and wouldn't condemn it as your paper does... From our discussions of the book we both found our own responses ambiguous. There are disagreements among sex workers on Dworkin. Actually, your more articulate sex workers agree on about as much as poets in my experience... and my cousin Keith was the Boy's Project Worker at PCV as well, so I've met quite a few articulate sex workers. You'll probably get some contrary letters to the editor from the constituency your writer 'claims to represent' (which is just to say that "Sex workers of the World Unite" is an optimistic title). It's not an area I'm expert in myself, and I'm off to see a La Mama Theatre production, but have a good weekend, what's the weather like in NZ? cheers Hugh Tolhurst ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Hamilton <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: Dworkin and Plath (2) > > "Is Zionism an hysterical Jewish separatism?" > > Zionism is an excellant comparison to make! So is the > ideology of the Black Muslims. Like radical feminism, > they're both reactionary responses to very real > oppressions. It's darned hard to argue against Zionism > without being called an anti-Semite, it's darned hard > arguing against radical feminism without being called > a sexist beast (that's why I usually leave it for > female anti-radical fem feminists to slug it out, when > I can! > > "Manhood" according to A.D. is a social artifact, not > a biological reality." > > > OK, I'm listening, but what sort of social artifact > spans so many cultures and epochs and contexts as > Dworkin's sponge-like concept of 'manhood'? I would > argue that it is a de facto piece of biologism. What > are the criteria for its emergence out of a social > context, if it is a social artifact? > > "She wants rid of male dominance, and the forms of > gendered being it > sustains... it's not the same as wanting men > exterminated, or believing > that desire or potential to commit rape is an inherent > part of the male > psyche and that therefore women will only be free when > all men are either > dead or placed under curfew." > > It's a bit like Christians who say 'we don't hate > gays, we just hate what they do every day with other > gays and what lots of their friends do and their > lifestyle and most of the things they identify with > and...' I mean, what's left to love? Dworkin defines > men by reference to the concept 'manhood.' Hate > 'manhood', hate men. > > It's interesting to note, here, that Dworkin has > consistently worked alongside extreme right-wing > bornagain Jesus freaks and crypto-fascists in opposing > things like pornography. Perhaps this bloc is not as > odd as it might at first seem? > > Cheers > Scott Hamilton > > PS I help to edit a political paper and one recent > article, or rather discussion piece, we featured was > called 'Sex Workers of the World Unite'. It was > written by a mate of mine, a woman who identifies as a > materialist feminist, and attacks what she sees as the > reactionary nature of Dworkin's stance on porn and the > sex industry. I could post it, if you think it will > contribute something to this debate. > > > > X-Apparently-To: [log in to unmask] via > web804.mail.yahoo.com > X-Track: 1: 40 > Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 23:10:21 +0100 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE > V5.00.2919.6600 > Subject: Re: Plath and Dworkin > From: "domfox" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > X-Unsub: To leave, send text 'leave poetryetc' to > [log in to unmask] > Reply-To: [log in to unmask] > Sender: [log in to unmask] > > "Manhood" according to A.D. is a social artifact, not > a biological reality. > She wants rid of male dominance, and the forms of > gendered being it > sustains. I don't want to argue about whether this is > a sensible, > politically sound or philosophically coherent notion. > I just want it > understood that it's not the same as wanting men > exterminated, or believing > that desire or potential to commit rape is an inherent > part of the male > psyche and that therefore women will only be free when > all men are either > dead or placed under curfew. > > Is Zionism an hysterical Jewish separatism? > > - Dom > > > ===== > "Why is it not possible for me to doubt that I have never been on the moon? And how > could I try to doubt it? First and foremost, the supposition that perhaps I have > been there would strike me as idle. Nothing would follow from it, nothing be > explained by it. It would not tie in with anything in my life... Philosophical > problems occur when language goes on holiday. We must not separate ideas from life, > we must not be misled by the appearances of sentences: we must investigate the > application of words in individual language-games" - Ludwig Wittgenstein > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%