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Tim, you support drawing in the group as a process that is learned by 'doing'. If it can be shown that design is dependant upon sketching or drawing, does it also follow that not having these talents takes away from designing? And yet I have met designers with little sketching skill who were excellent at colour and form. So if you don't need sketching as a skill to design - why have apprenticeship as a subject in a university? Or if it is case of learning by doing, conduct resarch along the same lines and kill two birds with one stone. research and learning at the same time. Cut half the staff and departments and spend the rest of the money on new kit. Or again, am I missing something. I 'm in that mood again. Glenn %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%