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Dear M Langley, I am sorry to hear that you have too many emails. However, I would strongly argue against your suggestion. This list is designed to encourage and enable discussion around a wide range of research issues in the broad area of human development etc in the outdoors. This area of discussion is not my main area of 'interest' but the issues raised are particularly important to all aspects of our interaction with other human beings whether they be through outdoor therapy or teaching and learning in informal or formal contexts or whatever. I too have many emails but I would not want to be deprived of discussions between members of the list. The discussion theme is identified by subject so all you need to do is delete that email without actually reading it. As list owner I would strongly encourage members to continue to discuss issues with the whole group. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: "M Langley" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 5:13 PM Subject: Re: Deprogramming therapy > Being that this is a very specific discussion that I am not involved in, it > would be helpful to me if it took place in a format other than replies to > the entire outres mail list. My e-mail is clogging up. I understand starting > a discussion in this forum, (I have sought information this way myself), but > it is probably not the best way to continue it. > > I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but it takes a while for me to > download multiple e-mails that I just end up deleting. > > Thanks > > > -----Original Message----- > From: To enable debate and discussion around research issues in outdoor and > adven [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:18 AM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: Deprogramming therapy > > Hi Roger > > Not quite sure what question came previously but picking up on this email. > I don't think I have the book you are looking for but some other books > which > might be of use which i will list at the end. if anyone has the book be > interested > in this as well. I have, however, previously given some thought on the idea > of the psychology of mind control. > > I agree that programming may work too well and think the issue you raise is > fascinating and having felt my own experinces in this context, ironically > only > an hour ago I was having a conversation on a personal experience of what i > refered > to as mind control when doing the pamper pole, and also like you Roger I > have > often wondered how much my work as a practioner is hinged in this ??? > > Some points I have thought include: > > Can social and psychological influence be utilised to make a person believe > anything and do anything ? > > Can a person be vaccinated against mind control ? > > Under what circumstances is anyone justified in ignoring an individuals > apparent > choice (e.g by kidnapping cult members) > > Is deprogramming just reprogramming ?? > > I also think there is debate here around the issue of 'challenge by choice' > we so frequently refer to in outdoor adventure.. for me there is a debate > here > which needs to had and even though we make reference to challenge by choice > what are the dynamics of this process and how can the psychology of mind > control > debate inform us of this process ?? > > A quote for thought in the book by Lifton.R.J (1966) Thought Reform of > Chinese > Intellectuals, in M.Jahoda & Warren,N (eds) Attitudes: Selected readings > Penguin > (p208) > > "In its zeal to save souls, its empahsis upon guilt and shame, its demand > for > atonement, recantation and reform , it (thought reform) resembles an induced > religious conversion. In its anayltic procedures and its therapeutic > emphasis, > it is a coervice form of psychotherapy - unique in supplying both the > disease > and the cure. Through all of these techniques it harnesses the most > powerful > human emotions in the total manipulation of the individual." > > I wonder if this bears any relevance to adventure programming??? > fascinating debate be interested to hear more on both a psychological and > philosophical > perspective ? I wonder how much these notions hing upon the suggestion by > William > James in the distinction between the two aspects of self. The self as > subject > 'me' and the self as subject 'I'. What is the relationship between mind > control > and the components of the changes in 'me' and changes in 'I'. For example > how > are changes developmental or situational and how are these two aspects of > the > self interelated in the process of mind control ?? > > Don't know how much that continues the debate ... just some intial thoughts. > Some other ref's which might add to debate '; > > Ullman,C (1989) The transformed self. The psychology of religious > conversion. > One interesting chapter Adolescent Conversion and the search for identity. > > > Sargant,W (1957) Battle for the mind: A physiology of conversion and > brainwashing > . Heinemann > > Barker,E (1984) The Making of A moonie : Choice or Brainwashing . > Blackwell. > > > Brown J.A.C (1963) Techniques of Persuassion from propoganda to > brainwashing > . Pebguin Books. > > interested to keep debate going .... > kaye > > > > > > >I have a book on this subject of deprogramming therapy buried > >somewhere in my house, and just wondered if someone on this list > >may know of the details of this book? > > > >I bought my copy in the early eighties. It was about helping > >young people escape from the brainwashing of cult groups. What > >worried me at the time was that the adventure programmes I was > >providing at the time bore many resemblances to the initial > >weekends that the Moonies were providing. The one thing that > >stood out as being different was the fact that we were > >'zealously' committed to self-development - which also seemed to > >be a reasonable (though not foolproof) strategy for avoiding any > >risk of indoctrination. > > > >Having been involved recently in various research exercises > >designed to demonstrate that adventure 'works', I now recall that > >early on in my career my major concern (as a practitioner) was > >that adventure might work too well. Are we asking the wrong > >questions? > > > >It is memories of these issues that make me wonder whether > >unlearning and deprogramming are closer to the spirit and purpose > >of adventure-based education. > > > >Yes, I will be immensely disappointed if no-one replies, but very > >thankful if someone can help me track down the book. > > > >Roger Greenaway > >Reviewing Skills Training > >[log in to unmask] > >http://reviewing.co.uk > > > > > Kaye Richards > Lecturer in Outdoor Education > Buckinghamshire Chilterns University College > Department of Leisure and Tourism > Wellesbourne Campus > Kingshill Road > High Wycombe > Buckinghamshire > HP13 5BB > Tel: 01494 522141 (ext. 4075) > Mobile: 07779 097380 > Email: [log in to unmask] > > Co-Editor ; Journal of Adventure Education and Outdoor Leadership > Email: [log in to unmask] > www.adventure-ed.co.uk >