>>It is no wonder that films have been compared to dreams--it >>is only rarely that I become aware 'this is only a dream' while dreaming. >>(sorry about the anecdote) anecdote forgiven . . . actually this is a VERY interesting suggestion, for note how in dreams, as in movies, we are typically helpless to do anything but watch and feel sensation . . . no one is doubting that "fictional" [hypothetical/imagined/imaginary] experience can and does cause sensation, only that we THINK it is real . . . perhaps the point is that in theaters as in sleep we don't "think" at all -- i'd buy that . . . it just reserves the word "think" for the mental process that indeed does know the dif. between lumiere's locomotive and amtrak's . . . would that satisfy all sides in the dispute?? mike