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Nate We all make mistakes, even - as you mention it - the avantgarde, whatever that is; but o'brien is powerful and earning his living out of the poetic status quo; and it is reasonable to expect him to explain. I go further and say that he has a duty to do so. In my fuckwit judgement he was taking the piss and there never was going to be real discussion. The idea that any of *us offended *him makes no allowance for what I judge to be his own rudeness, the means I believe by which he qualified for his management post and by which apparently he defends himself. If you defer to him; he'll be polite to you. It's the usual one-sided deal. You might have got a bit further, but you wouldn't have got far. There is too much at stake. Nothing you got would have been much use. I don't blame you for ignoring the story I have told you at the end, but it is true I assure you and I have it documented. This is the real thing, not debating, not misunderstandings. This is gentlemen's violence (NEW! NOW INCLUDES WOMEN!) I don't have David's estimation of my own debating skills... For whatever reason, Mr O'Brien ran away. Don't believe me if you cannnot. signing off Fuckwit %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%