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Hi listmates As an outsider, I have found the British disputation on this thread mildly depressing. Really, what does any of it matter? What matters is the poetry that was written. Was any of it any good? How much is still worth reading? My own answers would be: Yes. and Quite a lot. But none of this has emerged from the list. Chris has just taken us all to task, quite rightly, for wallowing in joylessness. So, what did you enjoy in the 70s? Much of the discussion so far has been like sitting in Grogans pub in Dublin listening to a bunch of drunks arguing over who among them was Paddy Kavanagh's best friend. Not that any of us is drunk (no torts please), but this kind of instant historical rewriting/self-justification tends towards unedifying spectacle all too quickly. As for Arts Councils: I see no harm in governments funding 'the arts' so long as we all recognise the fact that they are likely to fund the kinds of 'art' governments might like. If you can sneak a few quid off them, well and good, if not, don't complain. If you really want more money, sell the funders what they want. Unlike Chris, I think Place has a place, but I agree with his comments on how pointless that thread became. Has anyone read any of Harriet Tarlow's poetry? Or, if I may be allowed to recommend the work of my partner, Catherine Walsh's? The latter represents, in my view, the most interesting deconstruction of the Irish place tradition that I've seen yet. Read it. I guess I may just be feeling grumpy. Billy %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%