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Richard - You don't altogether surprise me. I, too, am still sceptical about "inventive" programs and theories in general. I invented "mind-mapping" for myself at school. I abandoned de Bono as obvious and unhelpful. Like you I don't need random input to "think different' All one needs do is recognise that the first thought is likely to be "same" and to immediately turn it on its head. QED. But it turns out that's a TRIZ trick. As are quite a few others I've developed myself which also appear in TRIZ. But I don't know all the engineering techniques in TRIZ (and actually I think TRIZ is caught in a time-warp somewhere in the mid-60's - perhaps even earlier. Hence "composites" appears as a one-liner at the very end of the list of Principles. What a throw-away!) and it's also useful to have a few extra tricks (do you deny that you learned any new nuances on your current repertoire?). I, too, like to be inventive. But I'm in a different position to you in that I have as part of my (implied) job description that I have to teach potatoes to have ideas. Or that's what it often seems like. Anything I can do to make that burden easier is to be welcomed. But then if I can also show people that having a good idea is as much a trick as the application of intellect (and intellect probably gets in the way at times!) then I have added value to one of the products of my job. Mostly they don't believe me, but that attitude can usually be overcome simply by saying "well, it's in this book . . . ". So there are ulterior motives. "Richard.Kirk" wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Julian Vincent" <[log in to unmask]> > To: <[log in to unmask]> > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 4:06 PM > Subject: TRIZ practical > > > This morning I ran a practical class for students at the end of a course > > on mechanical design in organisms. I set them some problems, then > > divided them into groups and set them to produce solutions using TRIZ > > (qv. on the www). The students had to be kicked out of the lab in the > > end. They thought it was magic and came up with lots of interesting > > ideas. They had 20 minutes of introduction to the concepts. How would > > you do? Try them!! > > I decided to have a go before and after learning about TRIZ. I posted > my 'before' bits. I then got a copy of Yuri Salamatov's book > "TRIZ: The Right Solution at the Right Time." - the one that Darrell > Mann recommended, and read it. > > It is a jolly poor translation, but it is the one I was recommended. > I have read it right through. There are one or two tables of physical > phenomena that mention something interesting, but by an large I > reckon that was a dead loss, and I am none the wiser. And yet I > know some Biomimetics people who are inventive and productive > through using it. Hmmm - maybe it is the sort of thing that works in a > classroom, but doesn't come across when you are doing it by > yourself. I have a nasty feeling I am Missing The Point here. > > I don't think I can spend companybig bucks going on a TRIZ course. > However if Reading U or somewhere organizes a short TRIZ methodology > workshop then I would love to give it another go in a practical environment. > Anyone else think this might be useful? > > Cheers. > Richard Kirk > > PS: > I must declare an interest here. I was good at doing integrals. > This was a useful and valuable talent. Nowadays computer > programs are better than me. I like being inventive. It would > lose its value and its appeal if everyone was at it. I have tried > my best with TRIZ, but there is a part of me that really doesn't > want it to work %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%