JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for ARCH-THEORY Archives


ARCH-THEORY Archives

ARCH-THEORY Archives


ARCH-THEORY@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

ARCH-THEORY Home

ARCH-THEORY Home

ARCH-THEORY  February 1999

ARCH-THEORY February 1999

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Peer Polity in Germany?

From:

"Chris Cumberpatch" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Wed, 17 Feb 1999 21:03:57 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (176 lines)

Dear Constanze,
    I am replying to you personally because I don't want to give offence to
any German archaeologists who might be subscribers to Arch-theory (seems
unlikely but you never know).  Between 1986 and 1991 I wrote a thesis on the
production and exchange of late Iron Age (La Tene C2 - D2) slip decorated
pottery in Central Europe (Czechoslovakia, Poland and Hungary) with a brief
foray into Germany to see the material from Manching.  My experience was
that German archaeologists and archaeologists in the German influenced
sphere (ie most of Central Europe) were at best apathetic about explicit
theory of any sort and at worst actually and actively hostile.
    The political situation in my study area at the time was deeply hostile
to anything but a pedestrian version of Marxism, which may explain
individual local reactions (and some of the younger Czech archaeologists
were heavily influenced by Schiffer and the New Archaeology - leading to all
sorts of trouble with the authorities) but by and large the attitude amongst
the establishment was one of deep scepticism or outright hostility to
anything which appeared to be 'theoretical'.  The political dimension was
only one aspect of this and the dominant Germanic tradition of research made
it very easy to stick to data-gathering, classification and typology.
    Reading German texts (and working in West Germany for a short time in
1982 and 1983) concerning my period it was clear that Culture-History was
not merely the dominant paradigm, it was the only permissable paradigm.  I
remember finding a book (I forget the title unfortunately, but it was West
German) with a chapter entitled something like 'Models in archaeology' and
turned to it thinking that it might mean models in the sense used by David
Clarke and Binford - out of date, maybe, but better than another 500 pages
of pot drawings - only to find that it meant actual models, little
reproductions in plaster and clay of hillfort entrances and ramparts with
miniature huts and figures!
    No one seemed willing to move away from questions concerning the Celtic
status of different 'cultures' or of going beyond typology and dating.
Granted, this tradition of scholarship has given us a fantastic data set in
the form of cemeteries and settlements - lavishly published and with museums
full of raw data, but as you will be aware, nothing at all in the way of
interesting explanations or innovative approaches.
    More seriously, and indeed tragically, this obsession with culture
history and ethnicity seems almost designed to fan the flames of nationalism
and I often wonder, when I read attacks on post-processualism as a
relativism, whether the critics have really considered the ways a ethnic /
culture-history account of the past legitimises the type of attitudes
prevalent in the former Yugoslavia (to take just one example, Lebanon is
another).  This has been briefly discussed in Archaeological Dialogues and I
have touched on it in a paper (as yet unpublished) about Lebanon.
    I wonder if you might find some more informed discussions of the
subjects that you are interested in if  you were to look at work being done
in the Czech Republic.  As I mentioned a number of people were interested in
the New Archaeology and have subsequently (subsequent to 1989 I mean) found
good jobs in the Institute of Archaeology in Prague and have continued to
read, write and think.  I have pretty much lost touch with what is going on
as I had to move on in order to make a living and I now work mainly on
medieval pottery in northern England, but a look at Archeologicke Rozhledy
or Pamatky Archeologicke might be informative.  The Slovaks have remained
(so far as I am aware) very traditional, but Sloveneske Archeologia might
also be worth a look.
    A chap named Heinrich Harke, who now lectures in Belfast (or did when I
last heard of him) did attempt to break the mould of German archaeology, but
the fact that he works in Ireland probably tells you soimething about the
extent of his success.  He organised a seminar group who called themselves
the Onkel Kreise (or something like that) in order to discuss theory, but it
didn't last long.  He has however written a number of papers on German
archaeology from a fairly critical perspective.  There is also a volume in
the British Archaeological Reports International series by Sabine Wolfram
which compares British and German approaches to archaeology - it's in German
and I have never read it as my German is rather poor, but it might be worth
looking at.
    I hope that this is of some interest.  To those of us who were working
in Central Europe at the time German archaeology was always a source of good
anecdotes about endless data gathering and huge storerooms full of stuff.
Indeed, in some circles in Britain it is practically  a by-word for rigid
and unthinking othodoxy - but as you are probably aware, the British are
good at satire and often excessively self-satisfied with it.
    As an aside, my own perspective involved a savage attack on
Core-Periphery models which struck me as excessively imperialistic in their
inspiration and which served to perpetuate a Rome-Paris-Wessex axis which
effectively denied the role of central Europe in the later Iron Age.  It was
fun and exciting, but ultimately unproductive as the French are still
churning it out and every book published on the Iron Age in Britain seems to
have a title involving Celts and barbarians (that's an exaggeration, there
is a lot of good stuff about).  I never really looked in detail at
peer-polity stuff as I was more concerned with a structural-marxist (or
marxian to be more exact) approach to the production and circulation of
goods.

I shall watch arch-theory closely to see how this develops.

all the best

Chris Cumberpatch
Archaeological Consultant
Sheffield,  U.K.

-----Original Message-----
From: Constanze Witt <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 5:22 PM
Subject: Peer Polity in Germany?


Dear arch-theorists (those who read German anyway)

I sent the query below to the ARCH-DE discussion list, hoping to hear
whether/how German-speaking archaeologists are dealing with Peer Polity
Interaction theory, which has had a good airing in the English lit but
seems not to have made much impact on German published interpretations.
PPI specifically because it seemed to me to offer a model for late
Hallstatt - early La Tene interactions more suited to the material finds
than the old Centre-Periphery models.

The responses have rather astonished me, and I would welcome feedback from
anyone on this list in understanding them.  In addition to questions asking
what PPI theory is, there have been one or two very useful summaries, but
no actual discussion at all, leading me to conclude that PPI has not in
fact made any impression on German-speaking archaeology.  Is this correct??
Is German archaeology in general as anti-theory as it appears?

There was also a response, excerpted below, that I assume was meant
seriously --  the author considers Peer Polity to have something to do with
peers of the realm or nobility = Aristocratic Polity Interaction, as
opposed to "on an approx. even level, given certain variability."   Is this
how PPI is understood by many??

TIA for any enlightenment
Constanze
-----------------
from mine to ARCH-DE:
Wie steht die "deutsche" Archäologie zum "Peer Polity Interaction" Modell,
insbes. auf die europäische Eisenzeit/späthallstatt-frühlatene bezogen?
Ich finde, daß die englischsprachige Archäologie das Modell aufgegriffen
hat und es weitgehend als Alternative zum alten "Centre-Periphery" Modell
ansieht; wie sieht's aus in der deutschen Arch?

Grundlegend:
Peer polity interaction and socio-political change / edited by Colin
Renfrew and John F. Cherry. Cambridge (Cambridgeshire) ; New York :
Cambridge University Press, 1986. New directions in archaeology. 0521229146
---------------------
from a response on ARCH-DE:
<snip>Das "Peer Polity Interaction" Modell hat nichts mit "gucken" (to peer)
zu tun, sondern mit "Adel". Die "Adligen" halten Kontakt untereinander,
betreiben Politik mit- und gegeneinander und auf diesem Weg wandern Ideen
und
Gueter. Als (nicht ganz gelungenes) Beispiel kann man sich den
mittelalterlichen
Adel vorstellen, der "abgehoben" vom gewoehnlichen Volk in eigenen Sphaeren
wandelte und handelte.

Diese Darstellung ist ganz einfach, aber mehr habe ich auf die Schnelle
auch nicht kapiert. Die ernsthafte [sic!] theoretische Betrachtung und
Gegenueberstellung der beiden Modelle fuellt ganze Baende, die zu lesen ich
keine Lust habe.

Wie aus den gewaehlten Beispielen hervorgeht, kann es nicht darum gehen,
welches der Modelle "besser" ist. Beide zeigen eine Seite/Ansicht einer
Gesellschaft. Primaer geht es darum, herauszufinden, ob es aehnliche
Strukturen gab und wie man sie nachweisen, untersuchen und weiter
gruppieren kann. Dass die Oberschichten benachbarter Gebiete untereinander
Kontakt hatten, ist meist leicht zu zeigen, aber wie lief das ab ?
<snip>
-------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Constanze Witt
Instructional Technology Specialist
UT Austin Classics Dept; Waggener Hall 17, C3400
Austin TX 78712
[log in to unmask], (512) 471 8684, fax (512) 471-4111
http://www.utexas.edu/depts/classics/

"I am as concerned as the next woman about the global recession, but what
I want, what I really really want is one of those new curvy, sexy iMac
computers - God, they're gorgeous." Suzanne Moore, The Independent




%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
September 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
July 2006
May 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager