---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 00:01:25 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
<[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 28 Feb 1999 to 1 Mar 1999
There are 35 messages totalling 1104 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. trials and errors
2. Trials and errors (4)
3. Tramping (2)
4. Wilde's Salome
5. Hurst and Blackett
6. Thames pronunciation
7. environmental issues
8. Announcement: Association for Victorian Studies in the UK (2)
9. Haig selections
10. "vast scoured cross" near Thame (2)
11. Tramping: Thank You
12. TTHA Poem of the Month for March
13. Miners (2)
14. Blond Heathcliff (3)
15. LEWIS CARROLL (3)
16. Misunderstood Alice (2)
17. Palgrave the Germanicist (2)
18. Looking for Gillian Darley
19. Crying over _In Memoriam_ (2)
20. Heathcliffe (2)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 00:41:11 -0500
From: Waits Raulerson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: trials and errors
You might want to look at Ed Cohen's book, +AF8-Talk on the Wilde Side+AF8-. He
takes as his starting point the problems he encountered searching for the
official records of Wilde's trials.
Cohen, Ed. +AF8-Talk on the Wilde Side: Toward a Genealogy of a Discourse on
Male Sexualities+AF8-. New York: Routledge, 1993.
Waits Raulerson
U of Florida
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 05:03:42 -0500
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Trials and errors
Hi!
I'd suggest:
1) the Law Society Library (113 Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1NB - tel 0171
320 5946)
or
2) the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies Library (17 Russell Square,
London WC1B 5DR - htttp://www.sas.ac.uk/ials - 0171 637 1731).
Although they were set up for lawyers, both will provide information to
bona fide researchers in response to a written or telephone enquiry.
>> I've just had a look at a bibliographical description of 'Oscar Wilde:
>> Three Times Tried', and the following was included:
>>
>> Only official report of these trials is to be found in v. 121 and 122 of
>> the Criminal court sessions papers, Apr.-June 1895, in which all
>> evidence is omitted.
>>
>> Does anyone have reasonable access to these volumes or know a good place
>> to start searching for them?
All the best
Chris
----------------
Chris Willis
English Dept
Birkbeck College
Malet Street
London WC1E 7HX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:32:59 +0000
From: Clare Loughlin <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Tramping
Stephen:
A key text here, I think would be Dickens' _The Uncommercial Traveller_,
as throughout this series of essays he attempts to distinguish between his
own observational wanderings, and those of more unsavoury figures.
Of particular interest to your student would be the essay later reprinted
as "Tramps" in which the Uncommercial Traveller categorizes and defines
several "orders" of tramps and tramping, so that, for instance: "The
slinking tramp is of the same hopeless order, and has the same injured
conviction on him that you were born to whatever you possess and never did
anything to get it." He is sympathetic, however, to travelling workers,
such as the roaming chair mender, even to the extent of identifying with
such a figure through use of the inclusive "we":
Very agreeable, too, to go on a chair-mending tour. What judges we should
be of rushes, and how knowingly (with a sheaf and a bottomless chair at
our back) we should lounge on bridges, looking over at osier-beds... When
we sat down with our backs against the barn or the pbulic-house, and began
to mend, what a sense of popularity would grow upon us. When all the
children came to look at us...what encouragement would be on us to plait
and weave! ("The Uncommercial Traveller [Tramps]", _All the Year Round_
III (16 June 1860): 232-3)
This would seem to form a specific adaptation of the undeserving/deserving
poor divide to tramps.
There is also a gloomy and disturbing exploration of the
experience of "houselessness" in this series, found in the reprinted
volume as "Night Walks".
Hope this helps. The essays collected in the volume were originally
published in three series in _All the Year Round_: series one ran from 28
Jan 1860 to 13 Oct 1860; series two from 2 May to 10 Oct 1863; series
three from 10 Oct 1868 to 5 June 1869.
All best,
Clare Loughlin
St. Anne's College
Oxford
On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Stephen Arata wrote:
> For the moment, my student is trying hard to resist the temptation to
> broaden her investigation to include gypsies, peddlars, peripapetic
> romantic poets, and other such mobile or "unhoused" figures. From her
> reading thus far, she's beginning to suspect that the figure of the tramp
> begins to be distinguished from other kinds of "vagabonds" only in the mid
> to late 19th century. By the time Davies and Orwell come on the scene,
> "tramping" is a pretty well-defined activity. So among other things my
> student is trying to see if she can identify the moment when this figure
> begins to emerge out of a less finely differentiated background of
> wandering outcasts.
>
> Steve
>
> ----------------------
> Stephen Arata
> Associate Professor of English
> Director, Undergraduate Studies
> University of Virginia
> 804/924-7105
>
>
> >
> >
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:28:30 -0000
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Wilde's Salome
>May go back even further in practice. Elizabeth I did not want religion
>discussed in plays. Probably was not a "law" -- just her wisdom of the
time.
>
And could be dangerous to the playwright from a theological point of view.
The Lord Chamberlain's 'rules' were not written down: there is a good
chapter in Samuel Hynes's _The Edwardian Turn of Mind_ on the operation of
theatre censorship then and the complaints of Shaw, Galsworthy, Granville
Barker etc who wanted a socially concerned theatre.
The progression seems to have been from 'we don't do religion on stage' to
'you _mustn't_ do religion on stage'. Ditto with sex: the 'cleaning up' of
the theatre seems to have started in the C18th, with the production of
'cleaned up' versions of Restoration comedies like _The Relapse_. By the
1900s the reader of plays for the LC was applying his own take on standard
moral conventions of the time as to what was and was not acceptable. Theatre
managements loved this: if a play had been passed by the LC they didn't have
to worry about prosecutions being brought by local morality groups (a lot of
book prosecutions began with the vol being denounced by e.g. the National
Vigilance Association). Plus presumably they were a bit dubious about
whether the kind of engaged theatre promoted by serious dramatists of the
time was going to be 'bums on seats' stuff.
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Phoebe Wray <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 01 March 1999 01:42
Subject: Re: Wilde's Salome
>In a message dated 3/1/99 12:41:23 AM, James Alexander wrote:
>
><<I've always been under the (unresearched) impression
>that the law dated from sometime in the Interregnum when the Puritans
>closed the theatres.>>
>
>Best
>phoebe
>
>Phoebe Wray
>The Boston Conservatory
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:31:14 -0000
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trials and errors
I'd also suggest the Public Record Office, Ruskin Avenue, Kew,
www.pro.gov.uk since this is the place of deposit for national court
proceedings. Plus Home Office files also there may include some transcripts?
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 01 March 1999 10:05
Subject: Trials and errors
>Hi!
>
>I'd suggest:
>
>1) the Law Society Library (113 Chancery Lane, London WC2A 1NB - tel 0171
>320 5946)
>or
>2) the Institute of Advanced Legal Studies Library (17 Russell Square,
>London WC1B 5DR - htttp://www.sas.ac.uk/ials - 0171 637 1731).
>
>Although they were set up for lawyers, both will provide information to
>bona fide researchers in response to a written or telephone enquiry.
>
>>> I've just had a look at a bibliographical description of 'Oscar Wilde:
>>> Three Times Tried', and the following was included:
>>>
>>> Only official report of these trials is to be found in v. 121 and 122 of
>>> the Criminal court sessions papers, Apr.-June 1895, in which all
>>> evidence is omitted.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have reasonable access to these volumes or know a good place
>>> to start searching for them?
>
>All the best
>Chris
>----------------
>Chris Willis
>English Dept
>Birkbeck College
>Malet Street
>London WC1E 7HX
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:23:18 EST
From: "ALBERT C. SEARS" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Hurst and Blackett
THANK YOU to everyone who responded to my Hurst & Blackett question!
Albert
-------------------
Albert C. Sears
English Department
Lehigh University
[log in to unmask]
-------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:49:36 -0500
From: Chris Willis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Thames pronunciation
Hi!
>> I can't agree with Helen Hanff via Greg Grainger that the old pron. of
>> *Thames* began with a fricative rather than a plosive. *th* was merely a
>> Middle English spelling variant for the sound /t/ which can be found in
>> *Anthony* (BrE pron.), *Thomas*, *thyme*.
Perhaps she was confusing "Thames" with "Thame" which I think is a village
in Oxfordshire?
All the best
Chris
-------------
Chris Willis
English Dept
Birkbeck College
Malet Street
London WC1E 7HX
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:31:44 +0000
From: RSM Fowler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: environmental issues
How about Gaskell's *Cousin Phillis*? It's short and students usually
enjoy it a lot. It's not about ecological issues in a modern sense but
it's one of the most interesting texts I know about the cutting of the
railways through the rural landscape. Best wishes, Rowena
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 07:50:19 -0600
From: "Lelia L. Phillips" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tramping
Alcott might be of interest, if the topic includes American literature.
Try some of her short fiction; I seem to remember a tramp (working for
food, etc.) as a prominent figure in one of the stories for children. And
in _Under the Lilacs_, a twelve-year-old tramp and his dog (fugitives from
a circus) are adopted into middle-class society. The problems he has
fitting in might shed some light on the contemporary view of tramps.
At the other end of the social scale, Mac Campell spends several weeks
tramping around the mountains and loves it. But he's definitely not
homeless; his family is wealthy and upper-class, and he does this purely
for pleasure. I'm not sure if this is the sort of tramp you're looking for.
Hope this helps.
--Lee Phillips
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:51:23 -0000
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Association for Victorian Studies in the UK
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_010D_01BE63EA.983A3080
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I sent a private message to Malcolm Hewitt expressing interest in this, =
but the e-mail was bounced due to 'insufficient disk space'.=20
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
------=_NextPart_000_010D_01BE63EA.983A3080
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I sent a private message to Malcolm =
Hewitt=20
expressing interest in this, but the e-mail was bounced due to =
'insufficient=20
disk space'. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Lesley Hall<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]</A></FONT></D=
IV></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_010D_01BE63EA.983A3080--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:02:11 -0600
From: Robert Kibler <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Haig selections
are these Haig pieces available as part of yoiur online offerings?Or =
Tucker? Name of collection?
>>> Jack Kolb <[log in to unmask]> 02/26 1:47 PM >>>
>Is Prof. Tucker's query (like part of my post) out of bounds for
>Victoria? If not, then I'll admit I've done two different Haig pieces:
>if I'm zipping by the Great War briefly, I do his Spring 1918
>back-to-the-wall order (which can still bring tears to the eyes, for
>many reasons),
>and if I take more time I do his "Second Dispatch" from December 1916,
>analysing how the allies (he) won the battle of the Somme. Yes, he
>could write. No, he's not literature, but he is text, not just context
>or pretext . . . [grin?]
>Patrick Scott
>[log in to unmask]
Where are these available, Patrick? I'd certainly be interested in using
them in my modern British novel course.
Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 08:40:46 -0600
From: Marcy Tanter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trials and errors
This might sound a bit weird, but you could also try writing to Stephen Fry
or the production co. that made _Wilde_. The coverage of the trial in the
film was sparse (it may have all been based on Elmann, I'm not sure) and
perhaps they could tell you what they used, if anything else, to write the
trial scenes. (I was disappointed in it, by the way, so I'm not suggesting
this because I loved the movie!!)
Dr. Marcy Tanter
Assistant Professor of English
Tarleton State University
Stephenville, TX 76401
254-968-9039
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:15:23 -0500
From: Beth Sutton-Ramspeck <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: "vast scoured cross" near Thame
>Perhaps she was confusing "Thames" with "Thame" which I think is a village
>in Oxfordshire?
Okay, while we're on the subject of Thame and geography generally, could
someone please explain the "vast scoured cross" in the following
description of the neighborhood of Thame?
"There in the western distance, amid the light-filled mists, lay Oxford; in
front of him was the site of Chalgrove field, where Hampden got his clumsy
death-wound, and Thame where he died; and far away, to his right, where the
hills swept to the north, he could just discern, gleaming against the face
of the down, the VAST SCOURED CROSS, whereby a Saxon king had blazoned his
victory over his Danish foes to all the plain beneath."
I suspect this is one of those things that is obvious to the locals and
nearly impossible to research at a distance. Certainly I have yet to track
down what it refers to.
Thanks,
Beth Sutton-Ramspeck
[log in to unmask]
Beth Sutton-Ramspeck
Assistant Professor of English
Galvin 410A
The Ohio State University at Lima
4240 Campus Drive
Lima, OH 45805
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 10:21:31 -0500
From: "Stephen D. Arata" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Tramping: Thank You
Many thanks to the many people who responded so generously to my
query regarding Victorian and post-Victorian tramping. My graduate advisee
is thrilled at the many leads she's been offered. What was already shaping
up as an interesting dissertation will now be a better-informed one thanks
to VICTORIA.
--Steve
------------------------
Stephen Arata
Associate Professor of English
Director, Undergraduate Studies
University of Virginia
804/924-7105
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:40:44 -0600
From: Lee Hamilton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Announcement: Association for Victorian Studies in the UK
I've tried to respond twice and had the same experience both time. Unless
this can be correct, I suppose I'll have to resort to conventional mail.
Lee T. Hamilton
The Universtiy of Texas--Pan American
[log in to unmask]
At 01:51 PM 3/1/1999 +0000, you wrote:
> I sent a private message to Malcolm Hewitt expressing interest in
>this, but the e-mail was bounced due to 'insufficient disk space'. Lesley
>Hall
>[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 09:49:49 -0600
From: Bill Morgan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: TTHA Poem of the Month for March
Earlier this morning, I posted Hardy's "At Tea," "In the Room of the
Bride-Elect," and "In the Moonlight" as the TTHA Poem(s) of the Month for
February, 1999. Althought I posted only three of them, I invite discussion
of any or all of the "Satires of Circumstance in Fifteen Glimpses."
You can find the TTHA Poem of the Month Discussion by following the links
from the main TTHA page at
http://www.yale.edu/hardysoc/Welcome/welcomet.htm
or by going directly to
http://wolf.its.ilstu.edu/cgi-bin/netforum/ths/a/1
Whichever route you take, when you arrive at the Poem of the Month
discussion, you will encounter a program called NetForum which will give
you the opportunity to read the poem as well as any comments it may have
generated, compose a response, preview your response, edit it further if
you like, and finally submit your contribution by clicking on the button
labeled Post the Message. (*Don't use the Reset Message button*; you will
lose your work.) If you are composing an intricate or long response, you
may want to guard against system crashes and other contingencies by first
preparing your response in a word processing program, then copying it to
your clipboard before pasting it into the message area of NetForum. And if
you prefer, feel free to send me your contribution as an e-mail, and I will
post it for you:
[log in to unmask]
I should perhaps note that while the discussions for February, March,
April, and May of 1998 have been "closed" and their contents edited and
published
in the *Hardy Review*, I:1 (July 1998), the discussions of the three "In
Tenebris" poems (June), "An August Midnight" (July), "Wessex Heights"
(August), "The Souls of the Slain" and "Drummer Hodge" (September),
"Reminiscences of a Dancing Man" (October), "The Darkling Thrush"
(November), "The Going" (December), "Channel Firing" (January), and "The
Voice" (February) are still open, and your contributions are invited.
Welcome to the March 1999 TTHA Poem of the Month Discussion.
cheers,
Bill Morgan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:11:56 -0000
From: "Freshwater, Nicola" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: "vast scoured cross" near Thame
This sounds as if it could be a chalk cross cut into the downland. If you go
to the following web page, http://subnet.virtual-pc.com/cl537273/cross.html,
there is a description of two chalk crosses in the neighbourhood of Thame,
though it sounds as if the "gigantic Whiteleaf Cross" is the most likely
candidate.
Nicola Freshwater
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:45:50 -0000
From: Lesley Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Trials and errors
>_. The coverage of the trial in the
>film was sparse (it may have all been based on Elmann, I'm not sure) and
>perhaps they could tell you what they used, if anything else, to write the
>trial scenes.
Probably Montgomery Hyde's book on the trial (I believe he alleged he had
had access to a transcript)
Lesley Hall
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Marcy Tanter <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: 01 March 1999 14:43
Subject: Re: Trials and errors
This might sound a bit weird, but you could also try writing to Stephen Fry
or the production co. that made _Wilde(I was disappointed in it, by the way,
so I'm not suggesting
this because I loved the movie!!)
Dr. Marcy Tanter
Assistant Professor of English
Tarleton State University
Stephenville, TX 76401
254-968-9039
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:38:40 -0500
From: dianna gilroy <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Miners
Gustav Klaus's _The Literature of Labour: Two Hundred Years of Working
Class Writing_ (St. Martin's. New York; xiii, 210 pp. 1985) has a
chapter on miner's poetry.
Dianna Gilroy
Tim Carens wrote:
>
> There is an interesting passage in Charles Kingsley's novel _Yeast_ which I
> don't think has been mentioned in the discussion on representations of
> mining and miners. The working-class hero Tregarva, who begins his working
> life as a child miner, undergoes a spiritual conversion when lost one night
> in a field of abandoned mine shafts during a storm. He significantly
> describes the shafts as the mouths of hell, which gives the industrial
> landscape a touch of _Pilgrim's Progress_ imagery. Tregarva promises that
> he will devote himself to God if he is able to reach home, a promise he
> fulfills by undertaking the mission to improve conditions of working-class
> life and labor. The passage is just a couple pages long, but combines in
> an interesting way criticism of mining conditions and this character's
> spiritual progress.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Tim Carens
>
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>
> Timothy L. Carens, Assistant Professor
> Department of English
> College of Charleston
> 66 George St.
> Charleston, SC 29424
> [log in to unmask]
> 843-953-5658
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:50:23 -0600
From: Doris Meriwether <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Blond Heathcliff
I saw it, Sheldon. Or did I imagine it? No, it was real.
Doris Meriwether
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:39:04 EST
From: Sara Catherine Hall <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LEWIS CARROLL
Hi-
I am currently taking a Victorian Prose and Poetry class for my undergraduate
work. I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on or places I might look to
find information that shows Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" as something
other than a child's tale. I found that when reading a few of the poems that
there seems to be the same ideas of the artist vs the real world as seen in
Tennyson's work.
Thanks
Sara Hall
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 12:50:26 -0600
From: Marcy Tanter <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LEWIS CARROLL
Sara, if you have access to the MLA's database at your library, that is a
good place to start. You can type in keywords and choose what years you
want to search and it will pull up all the articles and books the MLA has
indexed on the topic. It's an invaluable research tool. Good luck!
Dr. Marcy Tanter
Assistant Professor of English
Tarleton State University
Stephenville, TX 76401
254-968-9039
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 14:31:54 -0500
From: Thomas Drucker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Misunderstood Alice
The version of Alice that was on network television in the United
States last night did not live up to the amount of publicity before the
broadcast. There were all kinds of changes of text and cuts that seemed
incomprehensible, especially since some of them were replaced by other
dialogue of more recent composition. Carroll seems to have more skill with
words than most contemporary screenwriters.
The single most disturbing feature of this version was its attempt to
attach a message to a work that revelled in its freedom from a 'message'.
The scene in the book between Alice and the Duchess about morals is a fairly
effective refutation of the business of trying to draw one sentence morals
from stories or events. The television version included some of that
dialogue, but then went ahead to try to draw a moral of its own.
Since many on Victoria will not have had a chance to see this version,
I shan't go into details (although some of the newspaper reviewers were
remarkably tolerant of the production's shortcomings). The videotape
version was already being advertised for those who might be completists with
regard to their collections. I am not sure that this version was all that
much of an improvement on the Disney Alice when it comes to the impression
it would leave upon a child. At least the fact that there were still
playing-cards in the cast does not incline reviewers to say that the
characters were cardboard.
Thomas Drucker
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:25:30 -0800
From: Thomas Heywood <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Palgrave the Germanicist
Hello. I have stumbled the name of a certain writer called Palgrave.
This person appears named in a lecture being transcribed by a friend.
In that source he is mentioned as being a Germanicist and also of
Jewish ancestry.
I'm trying to find out who this Palgrave could be.
I was wondering if this Palgrave could be Francis Turner Palgrave
(1824-1897), the author of _Visions of England_ and the famous
anthology called _The Golden Treasury of English Songs and Lyrics_.
Are there any Palgraves other than Francis Turner?
Was Francis Turner Palgrave a Germanicist? Was he of Jewish ancestry?
I look forward to your feedback.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:31:17 -0600
From: Elaine Ostry <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: LEWIS CARROLL
--------------262182A4ED06A8623ADD7601
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I recommend Ronald Reichertz's book The Making of Alice. I think it was published
in 1996. He examines the various materials that go into the Alice books; I
especially liked his examination of the genre of "upside down book," which
predates children's literature.
Elaine Ostry
[log in to unmask]
Sara Catherine Hall wrote:
> Hi-
> I am currently taking a Victorian Prose and Poetry class for my undergraduate
> work. I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on or places I might look to
> find information that shows Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" as something
> other than a child's tale. I found that when reading a few of the poems that
> there seems to be the same ideas of the artist vs the real world as seen in
> Tennyson's work.
> Thanks
> Sara Hall
> [log in to unmask]
--------------262182A4ED06A8623ADD7601
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML>
I recommend Ronald Reichertz's book <U>The Making of Alice.</U> I
think it was published in 1996. He examines the various materials
that go into the Alice books; I especially liked his examination of the
genre of "upside down book," which predates children's literature.
<BR>Elaine Ostry
<BR>[log in to unmask]
<BR>
<BR>
<P>Sara Catherine Hall wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hi-
<BR>I am currently taking a Victorian Prose and Poetry class for my undergraduate
<BR>work. I am curious if anyone has any thoughts on or places I might
look to
<BR>find information that shows Lewis Carroll's "Alice in Wonderland" as
something
<BR>other than a child's tale. I found that when reading a few of the poems
that
<BR>there seems to be the same ideas of the artist vs the real world as
seen in
<BR>Tennyson's work.
<BR>Thanks
<BR>Sara Hall
<BR>[log in to unmask]</BLOCKQUOTE>
</HTML>
--------------262182A4ED06A8623ADD7601--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:42:56 -0500
From: "David E. Latane" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Palgrave the Germanicist
A Palgrave of Jewish descent would be either Sir Francis Palgrave (born
Francis Cohen), or one of his four sons.
As a "Gremanicist" one would assume it was Palgrave pere, an anglo-saxon
historian and founder of the Public Record Office.
The Palgraves were an extraordinary family--four brothers who
each earned recognition in widely separate fields.
The cast of Palgraveana includes Sir Francis Palgrave, his wife
Elizabeth, her father Dawson Turner (banker, botanist, antiquary, art
collector), and the four sons: Francis Turner (poet, editor, man of
letters); William Gifford (travel writer, Jesuit missionary, diplomat);
Robert Harry Inglis (economist); Reginald F. D. (Clerk to the House of
Commons).
David Latane
[log in to unmask]
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Thomas Heywood wrote:
> Hello. I have stumbled the name of a certain writer called Palgrave.
> This person appears named in a lecture being transcribed by a friend.
> In that source he is mentioned as being a Germanicist and also of
> Jewish ancestry.
>
> I'm trying to find out who this Palgrave could be.
>
> I was wondering if this Palgrave could be Francis Turner Palgrave
> (1824-1897), the author of _Visions of England_ and the famous
> anthology called _The Golden Treasury of English Songs and Lyrics_.
>
> Are there any Palgraves other than Francis Turner?
> Was Francis Turner Palgrave a Germanicist? Was he of Jewish ancestry?
>
> I look forward to your feedback.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 07:50:15 +1000
From: Ellen Jordan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Looking for Gillian Darley
A colleague would very much like to make contact with Gillian Darley
who wrote _Villages of Vision_ and a life of Octavia Hill. Can
any-one on Victoria suggest an address (other than that of a
publisher) to which she could write?
Ellen Jordan
University of Newcastle
AUSTRALIA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 13:11:41 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blond Heathcliff
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Doris Meriwether wrote:
> I saw it, Sheldon. Or did I imagine it? No, it was real.
>
> Doris Meriwether
Okay, then the question is why someone would conceive of Heathcliff as
being blond--is there any justification for that in the text?
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 16:51:14 EST
From: Tom Hughes <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Miners
For those interested in miners and their literature ... seek out more on Tommy
Armstrong - the so-called "pit poet." His work includes Trimdon Grange - the
story in rhyme of a famous mine accident in February, 1883. I believe he's
from the Durham area in the north of England.
Tom Hughes
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:59:21 -0500
From: Lew Whitaker <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crying over _In Memoriam_
I don't remember CRYING per se over In Memoriam, but Tennyson's poem has,
and continues to have, a powerful impact on me. It has also been
responsible for "converting" me from my study of 20th Century American
Literature to Victorian. Strangely, I remember many of my classmates
agonizing over finishing the poem, wishing Tennyson would just "get over
it."
Lew
-----Original Message-----
From: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ellen Moody
Sent: Sunday, February 28, 1999 10:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Crying over _In Memoriam_
However, I have been told by
students that they cried, felt tears coming to their eyes or
a catch in the throat over some Victorian work. In this
connection _In Memoriam_ leaps to mind.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:36:42 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blond Heathcliff
Anne Williamson wrote me privately with the information below, confirming
what I thought I knew about Heathcliff's coloration and echoing my
surprise at the fact that an artist would portray him as being blond.
Does anyone know anything about the picture of the blond Heathcliff--who
drew it? why they made Heathcliff blond? how it came to be in the Bronte
museum? was it commissioned by the museum?
Thanks.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
-------------------
Anne Williamson wrote:
"Heathcliff is repeatedly referred to as being dark. In fact the word
gipsy is used to describe his appearance on more than one occasion.
"In paragraph 1 of chapter I Heathcliff is said to have black eyes; a
little later in chapter 1 is the sentence
" '[Heathcliff] is a dark-skinned gipsy in aspect...'
"When the child Heathcliff first comes on the scene, in chapter IV, he is
described as a 'dirty, ragged, black-haired child'.
"So put all that together and you find Heathcliff has black hair, black
eyes and dark skin. So how someone conceived of him as blond is beyond my
understanding!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 23:44:36 +0000
From: Gene Stratton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heathcliffe
Why do I have the idea that some people are confusing
Heathcliffe with Laurence Olivier and are thinking of
Olivier as being blond?
Gene Stratton
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 15:51:15 -0800
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Heathcliffe
On Mon, 1 Mar 1999, Gene Stratton wrote:
> Why do I have the idea that some people are confusing
> Heathcliffe with Laurence Olivier and are thinking of
> Olivier as being blond?
>
> Gene Stratton
> [log in to unmask]
But two of us remember a picture of a blond Heathcliff at the Bronte
museum.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 17:10:49 -0800
From: Margot Louis <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Misunderstood Alice
I agree with Thomas Drucker that it was a mistake (and un-Carrollian) of
the film-makers to invent a moral for Alice, and one so heavily accented
and specific. On the other hand, the film did make me realize what a lot
of performance anxiety there really is in the book, and some scenes IMHO
worked very well--notably the Mock Turtle's song and the Walrus and the
Carpenter. I was also entranced by the set for the trial. I think this
film is infinitely better than the empty and silly Disney Alice, though
still very far inferior to the book (or books, I suppose I should say,
since they included scenes from Through the Looking-Glass).
I was wondering how heavily this film draws on the stage versions
of Alice. I did notice that the Walrus and Carpenter sequence includes
part of the verses which Carroll wrote for the Savile Clarke operetta,
where the oysters' ghosts appear (see Martin Gardner's Annotated Alice).
Margot K. Louis
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 21:15:59 +0000
From: Paula Krebs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Crying over _In Memoriam_
In my first semester of fulltime teaching, I was convinced I had failed as
a teacher of literature when my students seemed unmoved by "In
Memoriam"--until a senior colleague kindly explained to me that the
students probably just hadn't read it (which proved to be the case).
-Paula Krebs
At 05:59 PM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't remember CRYING per se over In Memoriam, but Tennyson's poem has,
>and continues to have, a powerful impact on me. It has also been
>responsible for "converting" me from my study of 20th Century American
>Literature to Victorian. Strangely, I remember many of my classmates
>agonizing over finishing the poem, wishing Tennyson would just "get over
>it."
>
>Lew
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 28 Feb 1999 to 1 Mar 1999
**************************************************
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
|
