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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 00:00:45 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society
<[log in to unmask]>
To: Recipients of VICTORIA digests <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: VICTORIA Digest - 20 May 1999 to 21 May 1999 (#1999-32)
There are 22 messages totalling 661 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. The Reverend Mr . . . (3)
2. actress novels (5)
3. East Lynne/incognito mothers
4. Adultery/Divorce (2)
5. Sonnets from the Portuguese and Elocution
6. Apollo and Dionysus
7. "Jekyll and Hyde," the product
8. _Dracula_ and Renfield (2)
9. music lessons (3)
10. Dramas about money/political economy
11. Actress novels
12. _Little Dorrit_ comment
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:28:53 +1000
From: Anne Williamson <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Reverend Mr . . .
> As a result of discussions I have read on more than one list I
> had taught myself to type Rev Mr or Rev Dr with the initial
> and surname. However, I was recently told by a publisher that
> this is a solecism, and it is either Mr Barnes or Rev Barnes.
> Now he may be citing 20th century usage, but that is the why
> such people are referred to in all his books. Was it different
> in the 19th century? I guess one could go through a number
> of 19th century novels and check whether the novelist often
> wrote Mr without the Rev or Rev without the Mr. My memory
> tells me novelists do. Still I could be wrong. It has happened :)
>
> Ellen Moody
I've done a search of the e-texts I have of 19C novels, not extensive to be
sure, but it seems that it was written either Rev {Mr or Dr} XXX or Rev
{name or initial} XXX. The texts I searched include all the Bronte novels,
Mrs Gaskell's biography of Charlotte Bronte, Thackeray's _Vanity Fair_,
some Anthony Trollope and some Jane Austen novels.
Naturally Trollope provided a counter-example, so perhaps there was not in
fact a rigid rule.
Search results included below for anyone who may be interested - only the
relevant line is included so it doesn't make good reading!
Anne
R$ sea * rev.
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]BRONTE-SHIRLEY-2.HTML;1
Rev. Cyril Hall, my friend. May --, 18--.'
58. The Rev. Cyril Hall, on his part also, placed a sprig in safety
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]BRONTE-SHIRLEY-3.HTML;1
219. 'For any right-hand defections, there is the Rev. Matthewson
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]BRONTE-SHIRLEY-4.HTML;1
to Caroline, niece of the Rev. Matthewson Helstone, M.A., Rector
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]GASKELL.TXT;1
squires--Rude sports of the people--Rev. William Grimshaw, Curate of
The Rev. Patrick Bronte--His marriage with Miss Branwell of
School and the Rev. Carus Wilson--Originals of "Miss Scatcherd,"
REV. P. BRONTE, A.B., MINISTER OF HAWORTH.
REV. P. BRONTE., INCUMBENT
YOUNGEST DAUGHTER OF THE REV. P. BRONTE, A.B.
REV. ARTHUR BELL NICHOLLS, A.B.,
AND DAUGHTER OF THE REV. P. BRONTE, A.B., INCUMBENT.
Rev. William Grimshaw, curate of Haworth for twenty years. Before this
The Rev. Patrick Bronte is a native of the County Down in Ireland. His
tutor in the family of the Rev. Mr. Tighe, rector of Drumgooland
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]EMMA.TXT;1
The Rev. Philip Elton, White-Hart, Bath, was to be seen under the
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]JANE.EYRE;1
But destiny, in the shape of the Rev. Mr. Nasmyth, came between
Mr. Rivers?- the Rev. Robert Brocklehurst is the treasurer.'
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]MANSFIELD.PARK;1
herself obliged to be attached to the Rev. Mr. Norris,
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]VANITY.FAIR;1
Bishop, and not by the Rev. Bartholomew Irons--to the
medicine and sent a letter by her to the Rev. Lawrence
marry a reverend gentleman, the Rev. Mr. Binny, one
Rev. Mr. Binny. He brought home numberless prizes and
their sons to profit by the chance--Right Rev. prelates
in the school to be prodigious. The Rev. Mr. Veal used
something of every known science. The Rev. Mr. Veal had
in the study at the Rev. Mr. Veal's, and the domestic
Hornblower, wife of the Rev. Silas Hornblower, when on
Sir Noodle, pupil of the Rev. Mr. Muff, whom she used
which bore her name, and was christened by the Rev.
******************************
D_A:[ANNE.BOOKS]WARDEN.TXT;1
The Rev. Septimus Harding was, a few years since, a beneficed
twelve years since, had married the Rev. Dr Theophilus
except the author, the publisher, and the Rev. Theophilus
--
Anne Williamson [log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:01:58 -0700
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: actress novels
I wonder if we can count Becky Sharp for her performance at Lord Steyne's
charades (as Clytemnestra etc.) and for overall performance as she schemes
to win a place for herself in society. And her mother was on the stage.
All of _Vanity Fair_ has theatrical overtones, of course, what with
Thackeray presenting his narrator as the "Manager of the Performance."
But for a Thackeray novel with a more conventional actress presence,
there's _Pendennis_, in which Arthur Pendennis becomes infatuated with an
actress named Emily Costigan (known on stage as "the Fotheringay"). Major
Pendennis has to rescue him from the entanglement.
True, the Fotheringay is not the focus of the novel, though she plays a
fairly major role in the opening chapters. For a Thackeray work that is
focused on a female performer, there's his extended short story "The
Ravenswing," which features a female singer, Morgiana Crump (aka The
Ravenswing)--but she's not exactly an actress, admittedly.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:02:35 -0700
From: Sheldon Goldfarb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: East Lynne/incognito mothers
I had remembered this as an incognito mother situation, but checking a plot
summary, it seems it is more like an incognito step-mother situation.
In any case, in Thackeray's _The Adventures of Philip_ Philip is nursed
through an attack of fever by one Caroline Brandon, known as "the Little
Sister," who (unbeknownst to most of the characters) was once married to
Philip's father--or at least went through a dubious marriage ceremony with
him. One character who knows about the ceremony wants to prove that the
marriage was in fact valid, but Caroline (much like Henry Esmond) refuses
to press her claim and disinherit Philip. She is quite devoted to Philip,
who does not know her true identity.
Sheldon Goldfarb
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:17:59 EDT
From: Matthew Sweet <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: actress novels
Have you tried Charles Reade's Peg Woffington (1852)? It's a pageant of
theatrical worthies, with the actress as its protagonist, written by a
novelist who always though the stage was his natural environment.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:18:47 EDT
From: Matthew Sweet <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: actress novels
Have you tried Charles Reade's Peg Woffington (1852)? It's a pageant of
theatrical worthies, with the actress as its protagonist, written by a
novelist who always though the stage was his natural environment.
Matthew Sweet
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 04:24:00 EDT
From: Matthew Sweet <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Adultery/Divorce
Collins's Basil certainly shouldn't be missed from the list. It is the only
mid-Victorian treatment of the subject, I believe, in which the cuckolded man
gets to listen through the wall of a hotel room to his wife and her lover
consummating their affair...
Matthew Sweet
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:05:56 +0000
From: "Margaret M." <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Sonnets from the Portuguese and Elocution
I believe Margaret Forster's biography of EBB has the most recently researched
account of the composition, gifting, and naming of the Sonnets from the
Portuguese.
When studying the rhymes of the Sonnets, I ran across John Walker and John
Longmuir, who both edited rhyming dictionaries and who both taught elocution.
I believe Walker has a book or two devoted to elocution. It would be worth
checking out.
Peggy Morlier
University of New Orleans
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:14:10 EDT
From: Katie Karrick <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Apollo and Dionysus
In a message dated 99-05-18 22:53:45 EDT, you write:
<< How about a book of last words of the famous dead? I remember one at the
woefully inadequate University of Virginia library; it was a popular
compilation, then held in reserved stacks.
>>
A quick search at amazon.com turned up 74 titles with keyword "last words".
Hope this helps.
Katie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:42:07 -0400
From: Patrick Scott <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Reverend Mr . . .
Surely there are overlapping conventions, some 'marked' or stigmatized in =
some contexts. The Victorian convention for clergy of the Established =
church was the Jordan one:=20
1. You never wrote The Reverend Harding or the Rev. Harding.
2. On envelopes etc. you wrote The Rev. Mr. Harding or the Rev. Septimus =
Harding, or possibly the Rev. S. Harding.,
3. In writing, even in the greeting line of letters, and in speech, you =
wrote oir spoke Mr. Harding, or Dear Mr. Harding, etc.
4. Throughout, for Rev., the pedant could substitute Revd. or even =
Reverend, if it preceded a Mr. Doctor or Christian name.
5. Mutatis mutandis the above rules applied for the Rev. Dr. Arabin, =
later the Very Rev. Dr. Arabin, Dean of Barchester, and would now usually =
apply to the Rt.Rev. Dr. Proudie , Bishop of Barchester, though Victorians =
would have addrressed envelopes to the later, to the Rt. Rev. the Lord =
Bishop of Barchester (greeting"My Lord," rather than the now conventional =
Dear Dr. Proudie, Dear Bishop Proudie, or Dear Bishop).
6. These conventions being imperfectly followed among dissenters (tho more =
nearly among Congregationalists and Wesleyans than among Baptists and =
Primitive Methodists), the usage "The Reverend Vincent" carried the stigma =
of nonconformity, as indeed, for many Victorians, the phrase a Methodist =
clergyman seemed oxymoronic, a clergyman being ipso facto from the =
Established church, and the phrases a Wesleyan minister or a baptist =
preacher seeming more natural.
7. The other distinctive, if tiny, non-Establishment bloc, the Roman =
Catholics, were like the dissenters in sometimes (older English catholics) =
following the Establishment pattern (the Rev. Dr. Newman, Dr. Newman), to =
signal equality, and sometimes lapsing into the alien titles of exotic =
sectarianism (Father Faber). Their Establishment correspondents could, in =
courtesy or icy hostility, manipulate the appearance of treating them as =
hyper-politely as equals (the Rev. Dr. Newman), teetering on the edge of =
denying their clericality (What then does Dr. Newman mean?) or using the =
alien name, equally a gesture of recognition and of stigma (Father =
Hopkins). Equally, the RCs adopted/revived pseudo-establishment territorial=
titles for their bishops in 1850, but managed to wrong-foot punctilious =
Anglican correspondents or converts by using the intensifiers of reverence =
differently, with quite ordinary RC diocesans being Most Reverend, a usage =
reserved to Archbishops in the Establishment.
7. The American South has long followed the conventions of English =
nonconformity, except among Anglophil Episcopalians; the Reverend Jackson, =
the Reverend Jesse Jackson, never the Reverend Mr. Jackson unless you are =
a hyperconservative columnist being rude and racist;=20
8. By the 1870s, but more commonly in the early 20th century, the complex =
semiotics of the RC marker of difference was adopted also by post_tractaria=
n high churchmen coyly or defiantly to difference themselves from mere =
(married, evangelical, low-church) clergymen and to assert the validity of =
their orders vis a vis RC exclusivist claims.
To summarize, as in most human affairs, there is not so much a correct =
usage as conflicting and changing and manipulable systems of usage.
Now of course, in Scotland, there were some differences . . .
Patrick Scott
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:41:47 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: "Jekyll and Hyde," the product
Dr. Jekyll is alive and well and living in the Dallas/Fort Worth area! On
Sunday I am going to see him in his smash hit musical, on tour from its
home on Broadway, and in the Fall his very own "Jekyll and Hyde"
restaurant will open in the Grapevine Mills mall (again, a copy of its
smash hit New York forebear). Thus far I have heard no word about what
Mr. Hyde thinks of his alter ego's sudden rise to prominence in Texas, but
I expect to hear shortly that a well-respected member of the Texas
Legislature has been bludgeoned to death for no apparent reason, a crime
witnessed only by a hotel maid on her way home from downtown Dallas.
Martin Danahay
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:00:22 EDT
From: Ron May <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: _Dracula_ and Renfield
In his conversation with Lord Godalming, Dr. Seward, Quincey Morris, and Van
Helsing, (Dr. Seward's Diary on Oct. 1), Renfield claims to have "seconded"
Godalming's father at the Wyndham. when Renfield expereinces "saner"
moments, he comes across as well-educated. Do any of you have an opinion as
to the class background of Mr. Renfield?
Ron May
Louisiana State University
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:28:30 -0500
From: Eleanor Courtemanche <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: actress novels
You might be interested in "For Each and For All," Volume XI of Harriet
Martineau's 1832-34 "Illustrations of Political Economy." The story
focuses on a woman who *used* to be an actress before marrying up into the
aristocracy -- so it doesn't depict her experiences onstage, but rather her
trials as a slightly declasse married woman. The heroine is not only
virtuous and hard-working, but sensibly middle-class. The novel seems to be
something of a spoof of the silver-fork genre (as well as an
anti-"co-operation" treatise).
Eleanor Courtemanche
Visiting Asst. Professor of English
Colby College
Waterville, ME 04901
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:49:51 -0230
From: Elizabeth Miller <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: _Dracula_ and Renfield
On Fri, 21 May 1999, Ron May wrote:
> In his conversation with Lord Godalming, Dr. Seward, Quincey Morris, and Van
> Helsing, (Dr. Seward's Diary on Oct. 1), Renfield claims to have "seconded"
> Godalming's father at the Wyndham. when Renfield expereinces "saner"
> moments, he comes across as well-educated. Do any of you have an opinion as
> to the class background of Mr. Renfield?
> Ron May
> Louisiana State University
> [log in to unmask]
Seward also notes (Ch 18) that Renfield speaks "with the manner of a
polished gentleman." He is obviously well educated as he uses Latin legal
terminology ("non causa" and "ignoratio elenchi").
Elizabeth Miller
[log in to unmask]
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~emiller/ ["Dracula's homepage"]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:57:37 -0700
From: Jack Kolb <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Adultery/Divorce
>Has anyone yet mentioned Meredith's _Ordeal of Richard Feverel_? It's in
>the background, but very important to the novel. (Richard's mother had an
>affair with his father's best friend. I don't remember if they actually
>elope or are found out and she is divorced for adultery, but the point is
>that Richard's mother is missing through his childhood and his father raises
>him in a peculiar way largely as a result of his mother's adultery.)
>
>Elvira Casal
And of course there's Meredith's Modern Love.
Jack Kolb
Dept. of English, UCLA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:10:52 -0400
From: Ruth Solie <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: music lessons
I'd be very grateful to learn of any references you've come across to
girls and young women studying music (not just _playing_ music, but
actually receiving instruction). I know most of the standard fictional
sources; I'm especially interested in diaries and letters, etiquette
books, writings on education and child-rearing, and so forth. These
references are often just in passing and they're hard to find.
This is a sufficiently esoteric query that people should probably reply to
me personally. Many thanks in advance!
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ruth A. Solie
Department of Music [log in to unmask]
Smith College phone 413/585-3176
Northampton MA 01063 fax 413/585-3180
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:22:25 -0600
From: Jennifer Wagner-Lawlor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Dramas about money/political economy
To the collective wisdom of the VICTORIA list:
I am looking for 19th c. plays that are concerned, either implicitly or
explictly, with problems of money, credit, speculation and/or political
economy. My interest is primarily in Victorian drama, but any Romantic
precursors would also be fine. I got interested in this connection by looking
at plays such _Money_, _The Game of Speculation_, _The Ticket-of-Leave Man_,
and a few others; I'd like to find as many more like these as possible.
Anything come to mind?
Thank you in advance,
Jennifer Wagner-Lawlor
The University of Memphis
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:21:39 -0600
From: Doug Thorpe <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Actress novels
The actress Sibyl Vane figures prominently, though she is not the
protagonist, in Oscar Wilde's _The Picture of Dorian Gray_ (1890).
Doug Thorpe
University of Saskatchewan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:51:39 -0500
From: Adriana Craciun <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: actress novels
in both Burney's The Wanderer (1814) and Mary Robinson's The Natural
Daughter (1799), the protagonists scandalously attempt to work as
actresses and encounter a great deal of ire and discrimination because of
it.
ac
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I leave the twentieth century with no regrets."
- Taylor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Adriana Craciun tel (773) 508-2240
English Department [log in to unmask]
Loyola University Chicago http://orion.it.luc.edu/~acraciu
Chicago, Illinois 60626 USA fax (773) 508-8696
On Thu, 20 May 1999, Robin A Werner wrote:
> Hi, I am working on my dissertation at Tulane university and would like to
> seek out the wisdom of the list. I am interested in Actress Novels... not
> the canonical novels where actresses make breif appearances but novels
> focused on actresses. So far I have found several from the end of the
> century but only one from mid-century (Jewsbury _The Half Sisters_). If
> anyone on the list knows of any other early to mid-19th century actress
> novels please repond to me privately. Both British or American works
> would be of interest.
>
> Thanks,
> --Robin Werner
>
> "Always remember that the past is gone forever
> and the future never comes. So you didn't do
> it, nobody saw you do it, and they can't prove
> it was you."
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:57:44 -0500
From: Unrepentant Humanist <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: _Little Dorrit_ comment
Can anyone recall what critic commented that, given its several
plotlines, _Little Dorrit_ was "in danger of ceasing to be a novel at
all"? I think that line (or something very near it) was in some fairly
standard/classic/oft-cited piece of Dickens crit, but can't even
begin to recall where.
Thanks,
Larry Zygmunt
****************** And just as he who unwills what he wills
Larry Zygmunt | and shifts what he intends to seek new ends
[log in to unmask] | so that he's drawn from what he had begun,
[log in to unmask] | so was I in the midst of that dark land,
Unrepentant Humanist | because, with all my thinking, I annulled
English PhD Program | the task I had so quickly undertaken.
University of Chicago | --Dante, obviously trying to
****************** write a dissertation
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 16:51:59 -0600
From: jake w spidle <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: music lessons
On Fri, 21 May 1999, Ruth Solie wrote:
> I'd be very grateful to learn of any references you've come across to
> girls and young women studying music (not just _playing_ music, but
> actually receiving instruction).
>
> This is a sufficiently esoteric query that people should probably reply to
> me personally. Many thanks in advance!
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Ruth A. Solie
> Department of Music [log in to unmask]
> Smith College phone 413/585-3176
> Northampton MA 01063 fax 413/585-3180
>
Oh, no, you don't, Ruth! If I actually know and can contribute
something, I'm gonna' make sure everybody knows it!
If my memory serves me accurately, several of the biographies of
the remarkable Rossetti siblings--Weintraub's is one--include fairly
detailed discussion of the musical instruction and abilities of the brood.
And, more interestingly, see Saul Padover's very human study of that
remarkable Victorian Karl Marx; I'm pretty sure I remember his discussion
of piano lessons, etc. for the quite properly reared Marx girls.
Jake Spidle, Department of History, University of New Mexico
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:35:07 +1000
From: Ellen Jordan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: The Reverend Mr . . .
Many thanks to Anne Williamson for doing what I suppose I could have
done myself. This confirms my impression that the conventions
outlined by Patrick Scott were consistently adhered to by the major
Victorian novelists when referring to Anglican clergy. What I was
interested in was when clergy first began to be referred to as
"Reverend surname" and addressed in conversation as "Reverend" (on
analogy with "Doctor" for a medical man and "Father" for a catholic
priest). The "Rev Theophilus" case in 1855 is much the earliest I
have encountered.
Which of the two patterns of usage is now the
solecism is another matter again. Among the anglicans I knew in my
youth both the above were regarded as solecisms when used
of their own clergy, and I gather from Rose Macaulay's letters that
even in the 1950s she regarded them as inappropriate, revealing that
the speaker was a dissenter and/or of inferior social origins. Ellen
Moody indicates that in some circles today the opposite is the
case.
This then raises the further question of how we should refer
to nineteenth century clergy, a problem similar to that which comes
up with titles and the use of "Mrs" in the names of women authors.
With characters in books this is hardly a problem since we can stick
with the way the author usually refers to them (Dr Arabin, Mrs
Proudie, Lady Glencora), but what about real people? Do we try to
conform to what we believe was the customary usage in their circles,
which can on occasion sound facetious or obsequious, or do we use the
conventions, as Ellen Moody's publisher apparently insists, of our
own worlds?
Ellen Jordan
University of Newcastle
AUSTRALIA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 09:57:31 +1000
From: Ellen Jordan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: music lessons
According to the population census:
IN 1851 there were 2827 male music teachers and 5248 male
musicians and 2296 female music teachers and 832
female musicians /musical instrument makers
IN 1861 there were 2452 male music teachers and 7848 male
musicians and 3103 female music teachers and 1618 female musicians
Thereafter the categories were merged, recording 11,575 men and 7,056
women in 1871, 14,170 men and 11,376 women in 1881 and 19,495 men
and 19,111women in 1891.
Of course, such figures do not reveal what training they had, whom
they taught, or whether indeed they had any pupils at all.
Ellen Jordan
University of Newcastle
AUSTRALIA
[log in to unmask]
------------------------------
End of VICTORIA Digest - 20 May 1999 to 21 May 1999 (#1999-32)
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