I am just catching up with the accumulation of mail, so apologise for the
late response to earlier exchanges. I was puzzled by Pain's suggestion that
Herbert, in writing 'Easter' (actually 'Easter Wings') as a shaped poem, was
not 'overly concerned with the pattern'. I am not sure of the exact force of
'overly' here, but I find it difficult to understand why Herbert would write
a shaped poem if the shape of the poem wasn't one of the things he was
concerned about. The title 'Easter Wings' draws attention to the shape, and
the shape of the poem  (both as a visual image and line-by-line) is
inseparable from what Pain calls 'the poetic and spiritual message'. 
Robert Hampson

> ----------
> From: 	pain[SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
> Reply To: 	pain
> Sent: 	26 July 1999 01:18
> To: 	[log in to unmask]
> Subject: 	RE: 'nuke' followup from Pain.
> 
> Dear Chris,Peter, Alison, and others,
> 
> First the following is commendable
> 
> 
> 
> Last week at this time I'd just come off a stage, here in Lowestoft,
> playing at a benefit we organised for the Kosovo Refugee Lorries Appeal.
> Over 1000 people turned up, of all ages, and stayed for over 9 hours of
> music, movement-theatre and poetry. Over eleven hundred pounds was raised,
> almost enough to send one lorry of clothing piled up in a warehouse under
> a
> mile away. When I write I what do I mean? When I read I whom am I reading?
> 
> 
> I know Lowestoft and for that sum to be raised there --well it is an
> achievement.
> 
> 
> Now regarding --ah my surname Pain. Yes, it is my surname --over here
> people
> are called by their surnames, and when I got this email installed I just
> did
> as the Romans did --or here the Japanese. For your edification Pain is an
> old French --and probably Roman name, meaning "pagan" or "rustic" take
> your
> pick. Thomas Pain(e) from Thetford had the same name until they added an
> "e"
> . My first name is Stephen.
> 
> Poetry.
> 
> I read with interest the replies to my earlier posting and though it is
> nice
> to receive poetry by Tom Raworth and to know that people are considerate,
> it
> does nothing to resolve or answer my questions. The one word column by
> Andrews has a novelty effect -- as does most of the Lang-Po and Cam-Po --
> and that novelty has surely worn off --unless they choose another
> medium --maybe the shows in Venice can give clues. George Herbert's
> "Easter"
> and other poems that are in the pattern category --are not overly
> concerned
> with the pattern itself --in Herbert's case it is the poetic and spiritual
> message that is of import. Sometimes the changes in syntax and layout are
> for shock tactics --but they simply do not shock anymore, it was shocking
> in
> the early part of this century, but no longer. That novelty has gone. Was
> it
> the late Walter Nash who wrote books on layout and design? Perhaps those
> interested should read his books?
> 
> 
> Then it must be something to do with the theory? We have been told that
> poetry is ahead of science --I won't comment on that -- but I can tell you
> for sure that it is way behind the current theories --many of which now
> have
> returned to the "self". The language theory that underpins the Lang-po and
> Cam-Po is woefully out of date --and it reminds one of the Open University
> programmes which are in black and white --with a presenter who has long
> hair
> and flares. Perhaps the Po sisters are retro sisters? To continue to write
> in the vein of an outmoded style with old-fashioned ideas --is akin to the
> Neo-Georgians is it not? Do you wish me to be clearer than that? Is that
> shocking?
> 
> Here then are my points --put atomistically as possible( as Wittgenstein
> seems to be still de rigueur):
> 
> i. the games with syntax are no longer amusing or shocking --as with rhyme
> they should earn their keep
> 
> ii.theory used to prop up poetry that is weak --should at least be up to
> date -- but perhaps one should consider writing without theory? Is that
> too
> difficult? Is it something to do with the employment situation -- poets
> need
> to keep a foot in the door of literary or cultural criticism?
> 
> iii. Write poetry.
> 
> iv. listen to the sound track of the film "black gangster" it might give
> you
> some tips on "language" busting. I enjoyed it immensely -although disagree
> with the message...
> 
> v. Lighten up.
> 
> stephen
> 


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