> Incidentally, I have a theory that any song which has a ghost in the last
> verse like this is a fake-traditional song. I can't think of any real
> traditional songs which have this lame ending. Can anyone else?
> Steve Roud
This theory makes sense to me. Buerger's 'Vicar's Daughter of
Taubenhain' - one of the most popular of his long sentimental
ballads, written in the 1770s/80s - ends with a creepy (not *too*
lame) stanza about the 'spook you can still catch a glimpse of and
hear moaning today, down by the old pond ...' (that's a summary, not
a 'translation'). I don't know of anything like it in earlier
German ballads, or ones which were actually taken into or created in
non-literary/non-print traditions. But let's hear from some other
(non)experts. And if it is a literary tradition, where does it come
from?
Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DS LR Surv Lt Col C M St G Kirke <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 22 September 1999 01:32
> Subject: RE: Moral balladry
>
>
> >I wish I could agree, as I like to see the clean and straightforward side
> to
> >things. However, I believe that one must accept that, language being what
> >it is, words that CAN have double meanings will be taken as such - not
> >necessarily openly and up front, but certainly the possiblity of the less
> >salubrious meaning will come to the hearers (if their culture has equipped
> >them to identify it) even if thereafter they reject it as irrelevant.
> >
> >And, to repeat quite unnecessarily - it is a well trodden social
> >anthropological principle that ambiguity is powerful.
> >
> >Charles.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: steve roud [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: 22 September 1999 03:21
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: Moral balladry
> >
> >
> >Is this stuff about Barbara Allen a joke?
> >It is so easy to jump to silly conclusions on the basis of imagined
> internal
> >meanings, but the temptation should be resisted. The use of the word
> >'Scarlet' is no proof (or even any hint) of sexual looseness.
> >'Scarlet Town' was a slang term for Reading (pronounced 'Redding'), in
> which
> >Barbara was born in many versions, and it is given as that in numerous
> >British slang dictionaries.
> >Even if is wasn't 'Scarlet' was also used in numerous other slang phrases
> >with no sexual meaning, so why should this one have that meaning? There is
> >nothing else in the song which hints at it - or is dying of a broken-heart
> >not allowed in a love song? If we are desperate to find hidden meanings in
> >all songs, or to find more street-walker songs, or whatever our current
> >obsession is, it is extremely easy to make statements which cannot be
> >disproved, but which have no substance.
> >Try this one: There is a 19th century song called 'Cock up your Beaver',
> As
> >we know that 'cock' is slang for a penis, and 'beaver' is slang (at least
> in
> >some circles) for female pubic hair; this song is clearly an extremely
> dirty
> >song. The fact that a 'beaver' was a type of hat, which could be 'cocked'
> >doesn't matter, there must be a hidden meaning to it. The spurious
> >explanations for nursery rhymes which are so popular in Britain, and I
> >presume in the US (such as the Ring-a-Roses/Plague story) are built on
> >similar assertion-without-foundation techniques.
> >Try not to read your modern preoccupations into the past.
> >Steve Roud
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: J L Speranza <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> >Date: 20 September 1999 18:54
> >Subject: Moral balladry
> >
> >
> >>Re Molly Malone, B Olson writes: "There's a tradition in Dublin that the
> >>Molly Malone of the [ballad] was a prostitute, and the bronze statue of
> her
> >>is generally known as the 'tart with the cart' to match the 'floozie in
> the
> >>jacuzzi', the statue-cum-fountain of Anna Livia in O'Connell Street".
> >>
> >>The lyrics are not fresh in my mind, but is there a connotation that Ms
> >>Malone was a 'lady of the street', if that's the word? In which case, it
> >>would certainly make for an interesting interpretation (or commonplace of
> >>mush balladry, it seems), as there are a few ballads dealing on the
> >subject.
> >>My favourite being the ENGLISH ballad, Barbara Ellen.
> >>
> >>In the case of Ms Ellen (or Allen, for Childers) there is conclusive
> >TEXTUAL
> >>(internal) support. Notably, she hailed not from Dublin's fair city, but
> >>SCARLET town, and there's the suggestion that she, besides making the guys
> >>in the town cry 'well-a-day', she had the disease standardly associated
> >with
> >>mediaeval pros, viz. syphilis, or some similar venereal disease. This
> >>provides the best literal interpretation for Jemmy lying in his grave 'for
> >>love of cruel Barbara Ellen'.
> >>
> >>'Cockles & Mussels' is reprinted in the Oxford Songbook. My first
> >>acquaintance with it came, though, from the use Dennis Potter makes of it
> >in
> >>his play, 'Pennies from Heaven' (London: Faber) - where a character plays
> >it
> >>in the piano in a London pub to the annoyance of the clients (He played it
> >>badly, admittedly).
> >>
> >>In looking up in the Oxford Thesaurus for synonyms of 'prostitute' (in
> >>trying to think for a better subject title to this post), I come across
> >>'moll'. What more evidence do I need? :)
> >>
> >>Good luck in your reserach, and keep us informed.
> >>
> >>Best,
> >>J L Speranza
> >>Buenos Aires, Argentina.
> >>[log in to unmask]
> >>
> >>* * * * * * *
> >>B Boock writes: "I found the text in 'A Hundred Irish Ballads'. The text
> >>begins, 'In Dublin's fair city where the girls are so pretty...'. It has
> >>only three stanzas and is called 'Cockles & Mussels'. The author of the
> >song
> >>is not known. I would like to know how old it is and if there is any
> >>additional information about poor [Ms] Malone whose ghost is doomed to cry
> >>out 'cockles and mussels' as she did all her lifetime long.
> >>
> >>
>
>
+++++++++++++++
Dr Tom Cheesman (Lecturer in German / Dozent fuer Germanistik)
Department of German
University of Wales Swansea
Swansea SA2 8PP
Wales, GB
T: 00 44 1792 295170
F: 00 44 1792 295710
E: [log in to unmask]
http://www.swan.ac.uk/german/homepage.htm
'Axial Writing' Research Project
on diaspora literary/media cultures
(Transnational Communities Programme,
ESRC/Oxford University)
See:
http://www.swan.ac.uk/german/axial/
http://www.transcomm.ox.ac.uk
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