A few points:
* Simon has an interesting point about VR and its adoption by many
cultures. This is interesting because the technologies we are talking about
are generally Western in their origin and/or come to satisfy Western modes
of thinking. I had a discussion recently with a person who does not
perceive him self as a Western, but as a Malayan with Indian origins. For
him, as I understood, the idea of having 3D images to represent 'reality'
was trivial. symbols, and intricate frames of reference seemed much more
important. The VR technologies we develop should be both accessible and
applicable to people with various cultural backgrounds - if they are to be
adopted. Maybe to develop such systems the question of what is VR should be
clarified in a decontexualised manner...?
* Robin argued that VR should allow users to 'interact with the display in
real-time'. This is possible with technologies like DHTML, does it mean
that DHTML is a VR technology? When you read this you can interact with the
text (cut, paste, add etc..), I could also add some images - does it make
Eudora (or your email reader) a VR technology? Is VR anything on a cyber
reality? Are we talking about many many kinds of technologies, systems
etc., which could be described as VR if someone wants to...? Could VR do
better with a titled like interactive 3D graphics, or interactive element?
Or maybe VR is only for an interface aid for multiuser environments where
participants' activities form reality? Maybe VR is just in thinking about it?
Could be interesting to get some ideas bashed about...
Regards,
aharon
BTW -
Does anybody have any experience with webtops?
It was 10:07 09/11/98 -0000, when Simon emailed:
~Hi Aharon/Taylor
~
~I agree that the time is right to ask the question 'what is VR'
~(including the cultural, technological and artistic viewpoints). I would
~imagine that this discussion will include the impact of emerging
~technologies and platforms that will continue to evolve along with the
~'recognised' forms of VR. It seems to me that the social impact of VR is
~likely happen at a time when the many cultures (certainly *not* all)
~will have adopted other emerging technologies/platforms (and adapted
~them to their needs). This process in itself will have a significant
~impact on how VR is perceived in the future.
~
~Simon
~Simon et al.
~The subject "What is VR" has been one that has had many people in the VR
Forum
~agonising over. Bob Stone tried to address the issue in his original
report, on
~which DTI based the need for the VR Awareness programme. In the end it
was felt
~by the majority that the basic element that needs to be present, to
distinguish
~VR from other forms of graphical presentations, is the ability by the
viewer to
~be able to 'interact with the display in real-time'. In this way the
viewer can
~make decisions as to what he/she wants to do/display/change etc.
~
~I don't know if this is any help in your discussion.
~
~Robin Crosher, DTI/CII5a3
~
~
~-----Original Message-----
~From: aharon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
~Sent: 05 November 1998 03:06
~To: [log in to unmask]
~Cc: [log in to unmask]
~Subject: RE: Virtual and Reality
~
~
~Taylor, re-reading the initial text, I think it was intended as a wide
~set
~of questions. The examples which referred to 'art' are for:
~a) possible comparisons (e.g. between discussions about painting methods
~and 'types' of VR).
~b) I thought that many people use mediums such as painting, photography
~etc., so it would be easier to relate.
~~You state that 'the promise of Photography is to take photo's' what
~does
~~this mean?
~You are right, this might not be very transparant. The idea is that the
~medium's name, e.g. photography, refers nothing else but taking photos.
~It
~does not promise anything else, VR however, seem to promise two loosely
~connected terms which, non the less, have many meanings and
~connotations.
~Hope this provides some points to the issues you raised.
~BTW, I think Jaron Lanier(?), the person who it is said coined the term
~VR,
~is giving a talk at UCL(?).
~
~Regards,
~aharon
~
~It was 08:42 04/11/98 -0000, when Taylor Nuttall emailed:
~~Aharon, I suspect (like you?) that there is some inherent quality of VR
~
~~that as artists we either intentionally or unintentionally exploit. If
~your
~~questioning seeks to expose this it may be useful to explore the
~question
~~by reviewing other media. But undeniably the opportunity for discovery
~lies
~~in the medium of VR itself.
~~
~~You state that 'the promise of Photography is to take photo's' what
~does
~~this mean? Our expectations of photography and it's effects have
~evolved
~~over time - if we are to refer to it's cultural meaning rather than a
~~technological meaning, which I assume as artists we are.
~~
~~Do you intend to frame your question in an art context or are you
~framing
~~your questions in a wider domain?
~~
~~I'm not intending to cut your discussion short, just clarify to the
~~context. Are we referring to VR as a technology or as a medium or both?
~Are
~~these different discussions?
~~
~~I think the essential premise of asking 'what is VR' is a valid and
~timely
~~one.
~~
~~A web based resource reviewing VR as a technology can be found at:
~~http://www.isx.com/~jisdale/WhatIsVr.html
~~<http://www.isx.com/~jisdale/WhatIsVR.html
~~What Is Virtual Reality?
~~A Web-Based Introduction
~~Version 4 - Draft 1, September, 1998
~~by Jerry Isdale
~~
~~Cheers
~~
~~Taylor
~~
~~-----Original Message-----
~~From: aharon [SMTP:[log in to unmask]]
~~Sent: 01 November 1998 23:10
~~To: [log in to unmask]
~~Subject: Virtual and Reality
~~
~~
~~At the end of the last meeting, (29/11/98) Simon suggested it could be
~~useful in the next meeting to have a debate (or there about) regarding
~VR.
~~Maybe talking a bit on the mailing list could assist in shaping such a
~~debate??
~~
~~The terms Virtual and Reality convey a load of meanings, some of which
~are
~~contradictory to each other.
~~Are we talking about virtual as almost (real) like simulation, as with
~a
~~certain virtue, as a 'non-real' (environment), are we simply talking
~about
~~3D, or interactivity? Are we talking about reality as it might appear
~to a
~~Western educated person, as reality might appear to a quantum
~physicist, as
~~it might appear in abstract art, as it might seem for a Capitalist, as
~~hyper-real, as an augmented phenomenon, as classical realism, or as a
~~generated phenomena?
~~These type of arguments are not VR specific, definitions of reality and
~~arguments about ways of its virtualization are a kind of a civilized
~~tradition. For example, wrecking statues of a conquered city, or
~abstract
~~Vs figurative painting. The uniqueness of VR in the context of this
~long
~~historical process is the medium's own promise which is embedded in its
~~name. The promise of Photography is to take photos, Sculpture is to
~sculpt
~~be it with materials, assembled objects, society, environments etc..
~~Painting is to paint, Performance Art is some kind of performance,
~action
~~or even a theatrical work - but these and others mediums do not promise
~a
~~certain effect which defines them, VR does. VR promises a combination
~of
~~two illusive terms which mean many things to many people.
~~This is more than just a theoretical anecdote, because it might have
~some
~~historical significance.
~~a) The current collection of technologies, researches, developments and
~~associations which come under the banner of Virtual Reality have some
~~common goals which include dynamics of interactive interfaces, some
~~measures of disbelief suspension and real time events and objects
~~manipulation. If the VR community will argue amongst itself about what
~is
~~'true' VR (i.e. true measures of virtuality and reality), there will be
~a
~~fragmentation into opposing groups which might drive both developers
~and
~~funds away. Moreover, a fragmentation might lead to un-cooperative
~~situation among the various groups - which might weaken the propagation
~of
~~the medium as a whole.
~~b) The whole thing is transitional. VR will not retain its name and the
~~current strands of VR will evolve into very different mediums.
~~c) All of the above.
~~
~~Either of these VR futures might not occur, but the possibility they
~might
~~and their relevance to current situation in VR - could point at some
~ideas
~~for action. VR, whether it is 2D, 3D, Desktop, HMD, Environmental,
~~Distributed, Animated, 3D-DigiTV, or what ever - should embrace its
~~differences. The various perceptions regarding what is VR, should and
~could
~~be embraced by both application and content developers. At the end of
~it,
~~no one would be seriously willing to swear with their life that they
~know
~~exactly what VR's shape, form and practice will be like in 30 years
~time.
~~We each have different interests, wishes and dreams regarding what VR
~is,
~~should and could be, and that in it self is very powerful. Powerful
~enough
~~to take the medium into its next steps?..
~~
~~Regards,
~~aharon
~~
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~~without meaning -
~~ you can not be misunderstood
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~~
~~
~
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~
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