Charles (is the name significant ??? ;_)
gives us a fascinating theory about Bonnie Prince Charlie. I want
(really!) to believe this, especially since the usual sense of "bonnie"
(which is quite widespread in Scots) would seem to indicate that the
singers were talking of their "trueloves." What a lovely way to hide a
political song. That's the kind of theory that appeals to me!
I have nothing solid to add to this thread (alas), but I am troubled by the
(again very standard) melody: it sure seems to breath the air of the 19th
century. And that would fit right in with (at least American) 19th century
attempts at "folk voices" like "popular chanteys". These vague doubts fit
together so much so, in fact, that I have serious compunctions about
rallying around the theory that appeals most to me...
pondering...
darn ...
Can't anybody come up with some solid evidence that the song has some sort
of "antiquity" to its "popularity"??
pondering ...
Dave
(and to all Amero-philes: Happy Thanksgiving!)
>Oh, all right then. I was too shy to send this out on general distribution,
>but as it is such a different reply to those coming in it might be of
>interest.
>
>for Barbara James,
>
>I have cleaned up some of the history since I sent my first note to you. It
>is all from memory, but the outline is now at least a bit better!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Kirke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: 25 November 1998 14:58
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: My Bonnie lies over the ocean
>
>Much in haste. My grandmother often sang this song to me when I was a child
>explaining that the Bonny (Bonnie?) was Bonnie Prince Charlie, the Young
>Pretender, Charles Stuart. The Stuarts were pushed off the Throne of
>Britain in the Glorious Revolution in 168? by the bloodless invasion by the
>protestant Prince of Orange, later King William III who reigned with his
>wife, Mary Stuart.
>
>James II, who was expelled, had a son, the Old Pretender who invaded Britain
>in 1715 and failed. His son, Charles, the Young Pretender invaded in 1745
>and came much closer to success. He was finally defeated at the Batle of
>Cullodden and skipped back to France where he had been brought up.
>
>People who thought that he deserved better might well have emigrated to
>America as the English were nasty to the Scots who had supported Charlie and
>many of them found that leaving Britain was preferable to staying. If so,
>then they could well have taken this song with them.
>
>On this evidence I would date it to 1745/6.
>
>Charles.
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David G. Engle
California State University, Fresno
Tel: (209) 278-2708; FAX: (209) 278-7878
http://www.csufresno.edu/forlang
The Traditional Ballad Index Web Site:
http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/BalladIndexTOC.html
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