hi john... you said a lot there.... and it was all very interesting... but
could you perhaps summarize your main point? i couldn't really understand
what you were driving at....

bryan

-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Saturday, December 05, 1998 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Is Altruism consistent with environmentalsim?


>A series of questions here responding to another series of questions
>regarding the sentience of earth. Is the mitochondria in a cell sentient? I
>doubt that it is to the same degree that a neuronal cell is. Is a tree
>sentient? It probably has sentience of some type. Does Gaia have sentience?
>It depends. If time were contracted, then much of the earth over a period
of
>time would be sentient. Certain animal cells in birds, fish, and mammals
>would at one time be present at majority of places on earth.
>
>If the earth is 5 billion years old, then there is a great probability that
>the earth, whose life forms have inhabited her for well over 2 billion
>years, is or has been sentient at least on the majority of the surface of
>the earth. Secondly even individual organisms have variable experiences of
>sentience. We mammals are asleep they cannot sense their toes, but may
>dream. Secondly embryos at certains early stages of existence do not feel
>anything and have undetermined sex. A drunk person asleep does not
>experience much either. A person also does not feel sensibility in all
parts
>of the body at the same time, or is at least only conscious of a small part
>of the body at one time. Is a Blue whale experience sensibility in all
>surfaces of the skin at one time? Probably not. Sentience of the earth
>therefore depends on how the question is framed. In one strict sense the
>earth may be said to be a lifeless rock with sporadic occurences of
sentient
>biengs, or as a supraorganism that through time is conscious of itself
>through all its sentient individual organisms.
>
>A flock of passenger pigeons in the past could be as large as 20-30
>kilometers wide and 60 long where nests were common in the forest. That is
a
>large nesting area. I don't think that we can state with certainty that all
>sentient creatures experience the passage of time the same way humans do.
>This would be absurd, yet humans measure everything based on their on terms
>of reference, and conceptual framework.
>
>Species of man of war are composed of cells that are capable of individual
>existence, yet they choose to be cells within an organism. Are all cells in
>a animal body sentient? or are only certain cells? Does consciousness
reside
>only in the cerebral cortex, hypothalmus? or does consciousness also reside
>in the cells of the foot? What is the difference between consciousness and
>sentience?
>
>Entelechy is the transmission of information between two minds without an
>apparent medium [lacking speach or written or any other form of
>communication]. There is only one scientific explaination for this that I
>can agree with. It is based on Carl Jung's belief in synchronicity which is
>a phenomenon whereby two or more people at different parts of the earth
>[sometimes whole societies] are believed to have made the same observations
>or statements regarding reality. In reference to the ability he called
>synchronicity the coming to consciousness through the collective
unconscious
>an archtype or belief. The underlying theory is related to the mythological
>archtypes that occur through natural forms in all cultures predisposing
>existing groups and societies to similar archtypes and beliefs.
>
>jon
>
>At 08:17 AM 12/4/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>>You've lost me completely here
>>Steven
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>>Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 5:12 PM
>>Subject: Re: Is Altruism consistent with environmentalsim?
>>
>>
>>>Ya but we haven't established yet if Gaia is real [real consensus] yet.
If
>>>euvolvox is an organism with sensible microorganisms, does that
>>>automatically infer that the central nervous system [which some species
>>>lack] is capable of trans-continental communication, except through
>>>entelechy? Does Gaia have to have a central nervous system or is this
left
>>>to humans and dolphins as evolution progresses? The Gaia hypothesis is
very
>>>real in that it can be used to predict the existence of the Sulfur cycle.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 10:27 03/12/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>Bryan, are you making the literal Gaia arguement? i.e. the Earth is
>>>>sentient? I've heard that, but it requires a definition of sentience
which
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>





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