here's something that i wrote a while back on altruism, and it seems
relevant enough, so i'll repost it.... as a disclaimer, it represents my
personal beliefs and it is not particularly philosophically
sophisticated.....
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, December 01, 1998 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: FW: Peter Singer - An Interview
>At 08:28 PM 11/30/1998 -0600, Wayne Van Tassell wrote:
>
>>The chimps grooming each other is used as an example of reciprocal
>>altruism by so many authorities on the subject (Dawkins, de Waal, etc.)
>>that it seems rather pointless to deny it. The cost may be small, but I
>>am certain it is measurable, if only in terms of lost opportunities (ie
>>time spent grooming another could be time spent gathering food,
>>sleeping, etc. I understand the total amount of time chimps spend in
>>grooming is substantial. Taken in the aggregate, there is certainly
>>survival implications.
>
>There is a book on the evolutionary origins of virtue by Mat Ridley. The
>author is a zoologist and essentially states in his book "The Origins of
>Virture: human instincts and the evolution of cooperation" that there are
no
>examples of altruism in animals. This is because there are no examples
where
>an animal will risk itself for another species or risk itself for a
>genetically unrelated individual unless it is for some selfish return. He
>provides numerous examples, and states that cooperation exists primarily
>where groups have genetic similarities as in siblings, parents and so on.
Or
>where there is some reason to suspend short term selfish interest. The
>example of vampire bats regurgitating a nights blood back in the roost in
>Costa Rica shows that bats that "reciprocate" confer survival advantage
onto
>themselves by doing so. The evidence is overwhelming, and it supports the
>"selfish gene" behind all social cooperation. For instance bees and ants
and
>termites within a colony are genetically related, many of the "workers" are
>not able to reproduce except through the queen, so commit themselves in
this
>act of "altruism" but in animals it probably has no emotional motivation
>exactly. Robert Trivers stated too that the "reciprocity" is advantages but
>it is not true altruism, but a "tit for tat" behavioral adaptation in
>genetically distinct animals.
>
>If altruism exists as humans know it, it could only exist in a species that
>could comprehend right and wrong. In an animal this is probably not
>possible. I have never heard of an animal being or feeling quilty, having a
>conscience. I have never heard of banishment of individual animals. There
is
>competition among animals that leads to forced leaved from a group, but
>there are no animal courts of justice. If a monkey is grooming another
>monkey, then it is likely a sister of brother and genetically the same or
>perhaps a half brother or sister. Humans on the other hand have to teach
>their young to be moral. We spend a great amount of effort teaching
children
>how to respect other person's feelings, and that the animals must be
>protected, and natural resources must be conserved.
>
>It has also been argued that true altruism to be true altruism could not
>result in feelings of satifaction in the giver, but only in the recepient.
>Altruism cannot be felt as being beneficial to one's emotions; that is, an
>altruistic act must be a true scarifice where one donates a kidney to one's
>brother or something that is not going to necessarily be beneficial to
one's
>health or longivity but is done - on balance - to save another person from
>dying. The criteria for a true act of altruism is an act that is not
>reciprocal in anyway. The terms of contradictories, therefore, altruism is
>giving without expectation of a personal return, even happiness, but only
>the happiness of the recipient. Certainly the love of a brother is the
>reason for the donation, but the gift is completely selfish since brothers
>don't usually need to "earn love from the other brother."
>
>Hence the brotherhood and sisterhood of labour unions, sororities, orders,
>etc., brethren and sistren of the common live of the "devotia moderno"
>
>Chao Mien
>
>jf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>> I'll admit that I haven't read up on this topic in years and
>>> years, so my thinking may be out of date. If there are any
>>> evolutionary biologists out there, it would be nice to hear
>>> from them. I'll ask a couple of my friends who still keep
>>> current in this area and see if anything has been happening.
>>>
>
>
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