>I would suggest that if you lived in a culture where great symbolic
importance
>wasgiven to toe-nails then you would be changed, and others would see you
>differently.
>The case of losing your hand is more obvious. You would not be the same
person.
ok richard, then let me also put to you the question of which atoms of our
body that we are exactly.... i'll cut and paste it directly below....
our bodies are composed of atoms... these atoms are
>> constantly leaving our bodies, and new ones are coming in.... now, which
of
>> those atoms are you? the ones leaving, or the ones coming in, or both?
a
>> related example is the food we eat and the waste we urinate and deficate
and
>> sweat, ect.... when does your food become part of you? right when you
put
>> it in your mouth? is it then you? or do you have to digest it first?
spirit
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Twine <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 5:39 AM
Subject: Re: To be, or not to be (our bodies)
>
>
>Bryan Hyden wrote:
>
>> >My position is that we *are* our bodies. If you get a hand chopped off
you
>> a
>> >different person, by a factor of exacly one hand.
>>
>> ok steven, let me ask you this... are you your toenails? when you clip
>> them, do you become "less of a person" as it were? :) do you really
change?
>
>I would suggest that if you lived in a culture where great symbolic
importance
>wasgiven to toe-nails then you would be changed, and others would see you
>differently.
>The case of losing your hand is more obvious. You would not be the same
person.
>Especially given that we live in appearance obsessed times and spaces.
Quite
>probably you would be stigmatised for having a physical difference, and
this
>would
>then impinge upon the subjectivity of the person, thus changing who they
were.
>However, I would say that point over whether we are our bodies or are minds
is
>hopelessly flawed from the outset, since it is premised upon dualism, which
>isn't to say
>that it's not interesting.
>cheers,
>richard
>
>> or, if you got your hand chopped off, and you see someone who hasn't seen
>> you for a long time and they say, "hi steven, haven't see you for a
while!"
>> do you then say, oh, i'm not the same person...? or, actually, there
are
>> better examples... are bodies are composed of atoms... these atoms are
>> constantly leaving our bodies, and new ones are coming in.... now, which
of
>> those atoms are you? the ones leaving, or the ones coming in, or both?
a
>> related example is the food we eat and the waste we urinate and deficate
and
>> sweat, ect.... when does your food become part of you? right when you
put
>> it in your mouth? is it then you? or do you have to digest it first? i
>> submit that we are none of these things... we are nothing physical...
we
>> exist in a physical world but we are not ourselves physical... or as the
>> Police say it, "we are spirits, in a material world..." this is a
>> facinating topic to discuss.....
>>
>> spirit
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steven Bissell <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 2:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: gentlemen?
>>
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: Bryan Hyden <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 6:00 PM
>> >Subject: Re: gentlemen?
>> >
>> >
>> >>>If we are "not of this earth," what are we of? "Transcend the physical
>> >>>world"? How? Sorry, but you've really lost me here. Are you talking
>> >>>trascendentalism as in eastern religions or what?
>> >>
>> >>well, we are not our bodies... if you get your hand chopped off, you
are
>> >>still the same person... we are not our emotions or our thoughts...
we
>> >>are aware of HAVING these things, but we are not these things.... it
>> >isn't
>> >>necessarily eastern religion, but it is very similar to it... (snip
a
>> >lot)
>> >
>> >My position is that we *are* our bodies. If you get a hand chopped off
you
>> a
>> >different person, by a factor of exacly one hand. We evolved on this
Earth,
>> >we are of this Earth, we are inseperable from this Earth. Our brain is
the
>> >organ of awareness, awareness is not outside of the functioning of the
>> >brain. The existence or not of a God(dess or Gods) is essentially a
>> question
>> >of astrophysics, if they exist, we'll find them some where, some place,
>> some
>> >time.
>> >
>> >My dog and I sit outside at night sometimes looking at the stars. I see
the
>> >same stars as my dog, but my awareness of the stars is different from
the
>> >dog due to different types of brain function, not because I'm "higher"
or
>> >"superior" to my dog. The dog smells stuff, not stars, in the yard of
which
>> >I'm completely unaware. The dog does this because of different brain
>> >function, not because it's "higher" or "superior." We are just different
>> >inhabitants of the same Earth, different evolutionary histories.
>> >
>> >I also think that just as the dog cannot be aware of the nature of
stars,
>> >there are probably a lot of things of which I cannot be aware due to the
>> way
>> >my brain functions. But, my brain and my mind are the same thing, or I
>> >suppose, the mind is an invention of the brain.
>> >
>> >Steven J. Bissell
>> >http://www.du.edu/~sbissell
>> >http://www.responsivemanagement.com
>> >Our human ecology is that of a rare species of mammal
>> >in a social, omnivorous niche. Our demography is one of
>> >a slow-breeding, large, intelligent primate.
>> >To shatter our population structure, to become abundant
>> >in the way of rodents, not only destroys our ecological
>> >relations with the rest of nature, it sets the stage
>> >for our mass insanity.
>> > Paul Shepard
>> >
>
>
>
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