>You still haven't shown how private property has resulted in a bad
>outcome.
i think that i did. i showed how it can now be used as an 'offensive'
power. granted, i didn't go very deeply into it, but i don't feel like i am
ready to do that yet. i need to learn more about it first (which is
something i find myself repeating again and again). but i don't think that
that lack of total knowledge should stop me from discussing it. if someone,
somewhere along the way can show me where my reasoning is faulty or can show
me a better way, then i will learn from it. putting everything into a pot
certainly doesn't sound like a possibility. the intention behind it might
be worth fleshing out some, and if you get the inspiration to do such a
thing and share it with us, i'd be glad to look at it.
>Tell me when you are hungry do you take a nap?
this seems like an intentionally obtuse question to me. where did you get
this from? it sort of sounds like you are implying that i was trying to
solve one thing by doing something completely different? how do you mean?
are you saying that we should keep private property but that we should
redistribute the wealth? ok, ok... as i ask these questions i'm beginning
to think i understand you, though i still think you could have worded the
question a bit more civilly... and if you think that is the answer, and if
you are inclined to speak on it, how do you see that solution tying in with
the other factors currently present in the world (ie political boundaries,
increasing population, deforrestation, starvation, ect.)? and if my
question isn't clear, just ignore it.... i'm feeling a little rushed right
now and don't have the time or will to clarify it any more at this time....
spirit
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Friday, November 06, 1998 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: Perceptions of sustainability
>---Bryan Hyden <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> steve wrote...
>>
>> >Yeah like the tragedy of the commons. Your problem is not with
>> >private property but the initial allocation of resources.
>>
>> well, first of all i don't consider it to be MY problem.... i
>consider it
>> to be A problem.... but you are right in part.... let us ask, how
>were
>> resources initially allocated? well, we'd have to go pretty far
>back for
>> the answer to that... throughout most of history, they were
>allocated on
>> one simple basis... "might makes right"... the stronger and more
>powerful
>> (usually physically, be it a person or a nation) took control of
>> resources... and all of history can be seen as either taking, or
>fighting
>> to keep, those resources.... and this continues to this day.... and
>as i've
>> said before, the idea of private property was origionally
>implemented for
>> the benifit of protecting an individual against the ill intentioned
>advances
>> of others... but it hasn't worked.... or it's gone down hill,
>either way
>> one looks at it... the fact is that the wealth is distributed very
>> disproportionally, and people all over the world are starving to death
>> unnecessarily because of this.... private property might not be the
>source
>> of the problem, but it isn't helping at all... at least not in the
>form
>> that it's now in.... there should be some changes....
>
>You still haven't shown how private property has resulted in a bad
>outcome. You have shown how the use of force has resulted in bad
>outcomes. Here is the solution. Have everyone put all their various
>resources (money, stocks, bonds, cars, house(s), stero, televisions,
>etc.) into a big pot and then redistribute it in a "just" manner.
>Then let the market take over. People will then be starting from a
>"just" endowment and can engage in beneficial exhanges for what they
>may want.
>
>> private property might not be the source
>> of the problem, but it isn't helping at all... at least not in the
>form
>> that it's now in.... there should be some changes....
>
>Tell me when you are hungry do you take a nap?
>
>Steve
>_________________________________________________________
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