Hi Ian,
My BSL skills are somewhat rusty, but in the meantime I’d be happy to help the student (for free) with whatever I could, until something could be arranged.
Regards
Michele
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion list for CHESS <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of Natalya Dell
Sent: 04 September 2021 18:41
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Assistive Technology Training for BSL users
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Dear Ian,
I would argue that those AT training providers (who are service
providers) are in potential breach of the Equality Act duties - the duty to make reasonable adjustments and effectively charging the student for their reasonable adjustment (which is a specific breach of Section 20(7)).
The reasonableness of any adjustment does take cost into account on the terms of the whole organisation's financial status. So many of the larger AT training companies definitely wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
Some of the smaller ones might be more justified but they would have to prove it with accounts. The payment they receive (or not) for the service is not relevant in legal terms.
Asking the student to use their existing DSA BSL/English interpreting hours puts them at a disadvantage compared to a non-deaf student receiving AT Training, especially if the deaf student's DSA allowance is already insufficient for all their support needs. It really shouldn't be funded that way unless funding bodies explicitly say it can be.
Sadly, only a deaf student affected by this discrimination can complain and doing that is really difficult. I could imagine an AT training provider just refusing to provide the training and bouncing it back to SFE and causing delay after delay for the student. That's the major issue with Equality Act complaints, the slowness and relative inefficacy of the law.
What possibly needs to happen is for SFE and other funding bodies to make an explicit ruling about this and put it in the QAF.
Do you feel like prodding SFE and reporting back?
Natalya
On 31/08/2021 13:15, Ian Francis wrote:
> Dear Colleagues
>
> I carried out a DSA needs assessment earlier in the year for a deaf
> student for whom I recommended assistive tech software, along with
> training from a registered assistive tech training provider.
>
> The student recently contacted me to say that the training provider
> selected for her asked her to arrange her own BSL interpreter via her
> DSA funding for the training sessions. She was surprised to be asked
> this and was checking if this was normal procedure. To be honest, I
> also was surprised as it's a well established national agency and I
> thought, by now, (naively it would appear!) that training providers
> (especially larger ones) offering specialist training for disabled
> students would be able to provide any adaptations or adjustments to
> their training without any additional costs being incurred to the student or their DSA.
>
> As with many students, this students interpreter and note-taker costs
> are already likely to exceed the DSA maximum for her lectures etc
>
> I checked with the provider and they confirmed that they always ask
> the student to do this - their argument was:
>
> "...when it comes to BSL the difficulty is that the hourly rate for a
> BSL interpreter is more than the hourly rate ATT providers are able to
> charge to the funding body. Due to the technical nature of the
> training, a Level 6 BSL interpreter is usually required rather than a
> Band 3 CSW-BSL for example. XXX are happy to arrange a BSL interpreter
> for any of our students, however, the funding for this would need to
> be agreed with SFE/SFW before provision, which would cause delays for
> the student and the funding would still come out of their annual DSA
> allowance. As such, the simplest route is to use the student's
> existing BSL interpreter if available as this would avoid these delays. "
>
> They also checked the NMH-QAF and found no mention of what the
> requirement/responsibility is.
>
> I checked another provider and they pretty much said the same thing.
>
> The student doesn't feel using captioning for training sessions would
> work for her as she finds it difficult for interactive sessions and if
> she wants to ask questions, get clarification etc.
>
> (It would appear that previous students just haven't told me they've
> been asked to provide their own interpreter or maybe just gave up
> trying to sort out training at that point).
>
> So I'm now checking around several other agencies for the student to
> see who might be able to offer a trainer with appropriate BSL skills
> or alternatively arranges an interpreter for the session at no extra
> cost to the student's DSA. Remote would work for the student so
> location isn't too much of an issue. In future - if possible - I can
> then make sure I include recommendations for providers I know should
> be able to offer accessible training.
>
> I don't think I'm being unreasonable to expect training providers by
> now, especially larger companies with national coverage, to be able to
> support BSL users without charging it their DSA - but what do others
> think, am I wrong? If it's general consensus that this is acceptable
> then I suppose I just have to take it into account in future and
> explain it to each student I meet.
>
> Also - going back to the case in hand - I wondered if anyone knows of
> AT training providers who they know offer training for the student (or
> maybe organisations that offer this for free?). The student is
> contacting SFE to request her provider can be changed.
>
> The software is only Caption.ED for this student along with advice on
> in-built captioning features of other apps, but often students might
> use some kind of literacy aid software such as TextHelp, mind mapping
> such as MindView, maybe even software to manage audio recordings made
> via Radio Aid equipment, possibly even Dragon - it all depends on the
> individual student.
>
> Any comments or suggestions welcome!
>
> Best wishes
> Ian Francis
>
>
>
>
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