Hello again,
I appreciate and sympathize with the perspective of Dr. Tom Jones. That said, when I'm trying to write (or read) an academic article about drawing, it's so much better to be dealing with a concept that can be expressed in one simple word. Ideally, this will be a word that isn't broken into pieces with slashes (this latter advisement has nothing to do with our conversation, but is a pet peeve of mine because it interrupts my reading flow).
If we put an academic twist on Tom's plea for the pragmatic use of language, we can use a term that is already accepted and easily understandable: draftsperson. You can Google dictionary entries for the term, and it already covers people who draw, whether they are engineers or artists. Clear and elegant communication is my preference, and I think "draftsperson" achieves that.
At some point, perhaps a convention is merited, where we create a strong push to introduce even better, although currently confusing, terminology, such as "drawer" or "draw-er." I hesitate on the latter, because hyphenation is only somewhat more elegant than slashes / / /
Cheers,
Ramona
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 10:28:13 +0000
From: TOM JONES <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
Hello,
After forty-five or so years coping with verbal ball-room dancing in
Higher Education Art & Design, I am now relieved to be living in the
real world where people have a pragmatic approach to language. It's a
world where 'drawers' are understood to be furniture parts, or
underwear if you are quaintly old fashioned. When people ask me what I
do, I say 'I am someone who draws' - they know what this means because I
am using everyday language. Incidentally, when they ask me if I am an
'artist', I say: 'Other people can decide on that - I just draw.'
Dr Tom Jones (ex-Professor)
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Subject: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
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Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:17:52 +0100
From: Ronald van den Haak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 8 Jan 2021 to 9 Jan 2021 -
Special issue (#2021-11)
rectification : i meant homonym , not synonym!!!
Op zo 10 jan. 2021 00:07 schreef Ronald van den Haak
<[log in to unmask]
:
*Firstly: a funny precedent of this discussion.*
Page 8 of ‘Ashwin, C. (1982). Encyclopaedia of Drawing: Materials,
Techniques and Style’ reads:
*“I have throughout the text used the word 'draughtsman' to denote
someone
who produces drawings of any kind and for whatever reason. Although the
term is generally accepted in art-historical literature as meaning
simply
'one who draws', it is unfortunate that, in the popular mind, it has a
close or even exclusive association with engineering drawing. This is a
regrettable state of affairs, since it leaves the man in the street
without
a word which is crucial to thought about and discussion of the subject
of
drawing. An attempt a few years back to establish the noun 'drawer',
comparable with 'painter' and 'sculptor', to mean 'one who draws'
unfortunately came to nothing.*
*As well as being regrettable, the problem is symptomatic of a
fundamental
cultural defect. This is that historically drawing has tended to be
regarded as primarily an ancillary of other activities, such as
painting,
sculpting and designing, rather than as a pursuit which might justify
the
total life work of a gifted individual. It is for this reason that, even
today, artists of immense ability who more or less confined their
activities to drawing, such as Charles Keene or Aubrey Beardsley, are
widely regarded as belonging to a different league from, let us say.
Pissarro or Whistler.” *
This book can be loaned digitally -free of charge- at the Internet
Archive.
Of course: ‘man on the street’ should now be read as ‘person on the
street’ 😊
The following thesis brought me to the above paragraphs:
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/handle/123456789/43803
<https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/handle/123456789/43803>
*Secondly: my pledge for ‘drawer’ continued*
How bad is it to use a synonym? Context of the use of the term will
solve
the issue.
Let me illustrate, stay close to ‘drawers’ but then of the woody,
sliding
kind:
*Does a furniture maker think of eyes and noses when he thinks of the
face
of a drawer? Does he or she think of sitting down when he thinks of the
bottom of a drawer? Does he or she think of feathers or getting high
when
he thinks about a dovetail joint?*
All the best
Ronald van den Haak
Op za 9 jan. 2021 om 23:26 schreef Simon Rae <[log in to unmask]>:
Yes, ‘someone who draws’ is a good one that, as you say Lynn, allows for
everyone to join in. Although I will admit to modifying the declaration
sometimes and saying that I’m ‘someone who scribbles’ or ‘someone who
does
cartoons’ depending on the time and place, and who I’m talking with.
I’m fairly passionate about believing that everyone can say that they
are
‘someone who draws’. (Unfortunately many don’t because they think the
can’t, which I do not believe.)
Simon
Simon Rae
twitter: @simonrae
On 9 Jan 2021, at 18:30, Lynn Imperatore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I would agree with Tom and Iain. By framing this skillset within a
definition of ’someone who draws’, we remove notions of special mystical
talent, of a province only open to the trained professional. This allows
for everyone/anyone to take up the call to craft images in much the same
way that we do not have to be considered specialist in order to record
thoughts in writing.
Fun discussion — I enjoy how it goes quiet — then reemerges again!
Stay safe everyone.
Lynn
Dr. Lynn Imperatore
7 Old Ashley Hill
Montpelier
Bristol BS6 5JB, UK
[log in to unmask]
www.lynnimperatore.co.uk
hatch-drawing.org
home: 0117 9141109
mobile: 07867 97105
On 9 Jan 2021, at 4:45 pm, Iain MacLeod-Brudenell <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
I like the simplicity and accuracy of Tom’s response
On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 at 8:09 am, Tom Jones <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I refer to myself as ‘someone who draws’ because it focuses on the
person who does it whilst avoiding confusion with furniture. It also
gets
away from all the socio-cultural baggage around the title of ‘artist’
Tom Jones - someone who draws
Sent from my iPhone
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2021
(#2021-4)
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Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2021 06:57:56 +0000
From: Stephen Farthing <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 5 Jan 2021
to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4)
I agree
Stephen Farthing
follow me on Instagram @farthingstephen
On Friday, 8 January 2021, 20:11:17 EET, O'Donnell, Hugh F <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Although Graphic Artist as a title has a history of being thought of
as an applied art. Applied Art in turn has a history of be thought of as
a
step down from Fine Art. This is the trouble with qualifying Artist with
any other word. The whole question pivots on what the value is of
sectioning artistic practice. Once one has a lable its hard to shake it
off. And with a title comes Entitlement and the expectations that go
with
that
On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Jennie Speirs Grant <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
It’s a great discussion and following with interest. The term Graphic
Artist also seems very useful and ties in additionally with discussions
on
Literacy, Graphicacy and Numeracy as a proper basis for learning and
development. I’m not expert on this but as I understand it graphicacy
includes both drawing and handwriting, so is wider than the oft quoted
Three “R”s which omit drawing … All best Jennie Speirs Grant Dr
J.S.Grant mafa mag mrss Newcastle upon Tyne From: The UK drawing
research network mailing list <[log in to unmask]> On
Behalf Of Mark Clay
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 11:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH
Digest - 5 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4) Greetings to all, from
Oxford UK. I have much enjoyed following this discussion and thank
you
for all your interesting contributions. For me, I too think there is
great
interest in thinking about the possibilities in the word "graph", its
etymology and its extensions. Graph comes from the ancient greek word
meaning "writing", hence an autograph is one's own writing (or a
document
written in it). For me, writing and drawing have a deep-rooted kinship
(both practically and intellectually), so I am interested in the
possibilities of the work "graphic", and especially in the idea that it
might be reclaimed or repurposed for drawing practitioners from the
realm
of graphic design and/or what one might loosely call computer based
creativity (not that I have anything against either of those). In
that
sense, I wonder if "graphic artist" might be a suitable name. It's other
attraction for me is that is rightly ungendered, unlike many of the
English
word options we have already touched upon. Best wishes,
Mark Clay MFA www.markrclay.co.uk
On January 8, 2021 at 2:26 AM, stephen farthing <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
How about ‘graphographer’ as in “photographer “ radiographer “
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 8, 2021, at 2:56 AM, Crawford, Ramona <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
In English, I think "draftsperson" is the most elegant option. That
said, I'm American. "Draughtsperson" looks more awkward to me by
contrast,
even though it would be pronounced the same way. The term "drawer" would
likely be read incorrectly, as the compartment one pulls out of a
dresser
or cabinet.
Ramona
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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 12:52:06 +0300
From: Joe Graham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Dear Andrea,
Your request for a non-gendered term for drawer got me thinking... in
English this word is a bit tricky for all sorts of reasons, gendered or
otherwise, as others on this thread have pointed out.
However, in Turkish it seems things are slightly different, not least
as there is no gendered pronoun in Turkish: ‘o' stands for he/she/it.
With that in mind, I asked about, and it seems there are two words
for drawer in Turkish, where the difference between them is slight, but
intriguing for the non-native speaker interested in the topic. Let me
explain..
Drawing is Turkish is çizim, coming from the root çiz, and strongly
indicative of çizgi, which means line. Drawings are çizimler.
There are three words for drawing itself, unlike the simple verb/noun
split in English. There is çizim, which means drawing (noun), çizmek,
which
means 'to draw', where the mek/mak suffix denotes the act of doing
something, and çizme, which denotes the act of drawing (verb). I had to
double check to make sure that çizmek and çizme were indeed different in
direct use, and it seems they are (çizmeyi seviyor musun? did you like
the
act of drawing?)
This leads to two different words for drawer, where the difference in
suffix appears to indicate the kind of drawer one is referring to. There
is
çizmci (drawer) and çizer (drawer).
Unlike prefix based English, suffix based Turkish manages to split
what would be the er suffix in English into two. The way to understand
the
difference is by example:
çizmci
In Turkish, the ci/cı/çi/çı/çu/çu/cü/cu suffix denotes the subject of
the noun, used where the emphasis is on denoting profession, habits or
being a supporter of something. That said, it can seemingly be added to
almost any word as a way of suggesting someone is a ‘doer’ of that
thing,
much like ‘er' in English: balıkcı (fisherman and fishmonger, same word
for
both), çorbacı (soup shop/soup seller), tamirci (repairman, but without
a
gender), kaçakçı (the one who handles contraband, kaçak, aka smuggler)
and
yalancı (liar, the one who tells lies)
çizer
The er/ar/ur/ür suffix on the other hand denotes the subject of the
verb. It is used in the case of yazar, the one who writes, but in the
sense
of being the author (coming from yazmak, to write), okur, meaning the
one
who reads, but in the sense of being ‘the' reader (from okumak, to
read),
görünür, seeming (coming from görünmek, to seem) and the rather
wonderfully
named bilgisayar, which is the compound Turkish word for computer,
literally translated as 'information counter', or the one who does the
information counting.
With this in mind, it seems one can pick from either of these two
options, çizmci and çizer, to refer to oneself or others as a drawer.
But
there are differences in everyday use: çizimci is generally used to
imply
illustrator or technical drawer, whereas çizer implies drawer as in
artist
or cartoonist (çizgi film - cartoon), although both terms imply the
drawer
as artist very strongly.
However, I’m told that those in the younger generation working in the
creative industries would refer to themselves as çizer if they needed to
express the fact that they were a drawer - apparently no-one of this age
would use çizmci. Personally I am warm to çizmci, not least because of
the
freewheeling way in which the ci suffix can seemingly be applied to
almost
any activity. The men and women who go door to door collecting old stuff
are known as eskici, coming from eski (old), meaning those who deal with
old things.
All the best with your manuscript
Joe
Dr Joe Graham
Assistant Professor of Visual Communication Design
Faculty of Communication
Kadir Has University, Istanbul
Forthcoming in 2021:
Serial Drawing: Space, Time and the Art Object, Bloomsbury, part of
the Drawing In academic series of books edited by Phil Sawdon, Marsha
Meskimmon and Russell Marshall
The Being of Drawing, Marmalade Publishers of Visual Theory, London
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Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:58:14 +0000
From: Simon Downs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Dear Andrea and Angie
This has caused me some issues, not least because of the genderedness
of the term draftsman. I tangentially wrote about it in a recent paper.*
My
best guess at the issue was ‘drafter’ – as in one who drafts. As in
‘runner’ as one who runs.†
Looking at the evolution of English, I’m sure it will be worked out
in two or three centuries. No hurry.
Cheers.
Simon
*
https://eco.emergentpublications.com/Article/f0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae/academic
<https://eco.emergentpublications.com/Article/f0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae/academic>
† Following the French with dessinateur or traceur. Describe the
function.
From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, 23 December 2020 at 22:19
To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Yes, you really started something AK!
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020, 9:56 pm Andrea Kantrowitz, <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hello everyone! This is such a great thread.... anyone mind if i
quote you? Working on a book manuscript, thinking this would make a
great
2-page spread!
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 12:33 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Some food for thought:
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain
(adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man,
human,"
also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined,
civilized." This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling,
earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem-<
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*dhghem-?ref=etymonline_crossreference
<https://www.etymonline.com/word/*dhghem-?ref=etymonline_crossreference>
>
"earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes
involved. Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with
Old
Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person."
On Dec 22, 2020, at 4:37 AM, John Temperton <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
This problem regarding a definition, lies at the heart of my research
interest. Drawing is a misunderstood and marginalised activity, in which
final outcomes are valued over the activity of doing, something we are
biologically predisposed to do in powerful ways sympathetic to all
aspects
of both creativity and general education. It is our professional and
societal attitude towards drawing and the activity of drawing in our
lived
experience in a social interactionist sense that might ask questions
about
the activity's status purpose and usefulness. The fact that there is not
a
useful noun for the subject says it all really.
I like 'spraction' Visualizing Thought' as suggested by Tversky. Of
course, few are familiar with the term.
John
John Temperton BA Hons MA RCA PGCE FE FHEA
Senior Lecturer and Course Lead for Graphic Design
[
https://my-email-signature.link/signature.gif?u=1059654&e=127656217&v=2e8540d8279ca4b7b75c7a748bec2ddb5b7dc3f8164d8dec848f7a883814c38f
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]
________________________________
From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
on behalf of Jean Newman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 22 December 2020 06:55
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call someone who draws?
Mark maker takes us back to the palaeolithic roots of our creativity.
On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 at 05:35, mohammad moezzi <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
"Drafter" may not necessarily be an "artist"; I think it is a neutral
word. If we take creativity as a fundamental element of the work of art,
drawings are not necessarily artworks. For instance, in architecture
discipline, "drafter" usually executes the creative work of another
person.
Architectural drafter draws what architect- the artist- commands. Maybe
that is why technical architectural drawings are not considered as
artworks
usually, while preliminary sketches, drawn by the architect, are
exhibited
as artworks sometimes. Could we conclude drafters can be assumed as
artists
if only they draw forth their own idea and if they are not mediators
only?
Sincerely,
Mohammad Moézzi
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 9:50 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I thought a drawer was part of a cupboard
Hugh O'Donnell
www.bodyecho.com<
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>
www.hughodonnell.com<
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>
On Dec 21, 2020, at 23:48, stephen farthing <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I wonder if there needs to be a noun ? Drawer is such an ugly word.
Unlike “runner” which has a ring to it. Architects , engineers, doctors
,
cartographers , children , artists and all the rest, draw as a ‘part of
their practice’ - sure a few people only ever draw but those are usually
artists . So what we are talking about is “when artists draw “ and “when
mathematicians draw”. I think Leonardo was substantially more than a
Drawer!
With the Seasons Greetings
Stephen Farthing
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2020, at 3:59 AM, O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
An Artist
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 21, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Seymour Simmons <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Andrea and everyone,
This is a tough question! I've gone with 'draftsperson' mostly but it
is awkward. Maybe Howard's solution is the best, but lately I've been
finding myself capitalizing too many other words. Anyway, I'm enjoying
the
conversation!
Best wishes to one and all for a safe and happy holiday season, and
may 2021 be a better year in every way!
Seymour
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 12:28 PM Howard Riley <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Faced with the same problem, I opted for ‘Drawer’, capitalised to
indicate a person rather than a sliding storage unit!
Howard
(Also avoids the smutty connotation of the uncapitalised plural)
Sent from my iPhone
Professor Emeritus Howard Riley PhD MA(RCA) CertDes FRSA FHEA
Swansea College of Art, University of Wales Trinity St David, Wales,
UK
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Howard_Riley
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On 21 Dec 2020, at 15:50, Lucy Lyons <
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[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Andrea
I say drawer too!
Best wishes
Lucy
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On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 15:33, Andrea Kantrowitz
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
wrote:
I'm looking for a general non-gendered term. (ie sub for
draughtsman.) draughtsperson is way too cumbersome. I'm using "drawer"
for
now. any suggestions?
Thanks so much!
Andrea
Dr. Andrea Kantrowitz
Graduate Program Coordinator
Assistant Professor
Art Education
SUNY New Paltz
1 Hawk Drive, New Paltz, NY 12561
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Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:03:14 +0000
From: sarah tutt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [External Email] Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call
someone who draws?
Hi,
Really interesting to hear thoughts on the notion of pull and push.
As part
of my MFA I am working with the gesture of PUSH in the expanded field
of
drawing, framing PUSH as a grammar of drawing that relates to the
future.
Also in relation to naming - I struggle with draftsman/person/woman
as it
implies the act of drawing is preliminary.
Also - as part of my investigations into relationships between
Drawing and
TimeI I have recently written a drawing score. I am currently looking
for a
small number of artists who might be interested in actioning the
score. The
commitment involves walking the same urban route (that you choose)
for the
duration of 5 minutes whilst drawing and repeating this 12 times to
produce
12 postcard size responses. If anyone is interested in taking part
let me
know - I will send you the score, the postcards and a pen, with a SAE
to
return them to me (I can return drawings to you if you so wish once I
have
documented them). Anyone who is interested please drop me a line....
[log in to unmask]
Thanks
Sarah Tutt
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 10:47 PM David Edgar <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Drawing
Hi Chris. The action of vacuum as pushing and pulling matter - air,
wind,
sail / mark, medium, maker - to empty one part whilst filling another
is a
great analogy for drawing. Absolutely, for me, drawing is an uneasy
concoction of push and pull / fullness and emptiness. Not just in the
physical sense of doing but also in the thinking/empty moments just
prior
to and in that mysterious moment when making a mark. It’s also well
before these moments as one thinks in and out of ideas and imagines
them
forming and taking place. Drawing begins and proceeds in this
push/pull
‘vacuum’ of experience. The outcome / product is often somewhat
irritating and irrelevant but in the end it is what it is.
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 10:38 pm, Chris Heape <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi,
Just for fun, I couldn’t help but muse on the link between drawing as
a
linear activity and the notion of drawing as pulling.
In his talk, https://vimeo.com/286418661, <https://vimeo.com/286418661,>
Hadi Tabatabai, not only
introduces the usual definition of a line as the shortest length
between
two points, but also introduces the notion of a line as an experience
between two points. I can’t remember who he cites, but it’s in the
video.
I’d like to expand on that notion of experience in relation to
drawing a
line: that drawing a line is an experience. I know for sure that when
I
draw a line, and most of my drawings are made up of parallel
horizontal
lines, that the feel and touch of graphite on paper, the pressure,
the
delicacy or not or my interaction is a very complete experience which
can
altogether influence the character of a drawn line.
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Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 11:27:51 +0000
From: "Leah, Joanna" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
'I just draw' - I like that....
I struggle with the term artist despite so called practicing for many years. I like Herman Melville's short story that Gilles Deleuze wrote on 'I prefer not to'. I prefer not has defined so many aspects of being on the edge of disciplines. I am not... can define what we are. However, to just state 'I just draw' is compellingly, direct, stake in the ground and an active approach to practice.
Thank you!
Joanna Leah
Senior Lecturer Contextual Studies Art & Design
Please note my research day is Friday and unable to respond on this week day.
Leeds School of Arts
Leeds Beckett University,
A305, Broadcasting Place, Woodhouse Lane, Leeds, LS2 9PD
Email: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Website: https://www.joannaleah.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Joannaleah7
Instagram: JoannaLeah_art
________________________________
From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of TOM JONES <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 11 January 2021 10:28
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
Hello,
After forty-five or so years coping with verbal ball-room dancing in Higher Education Art & Design, I am now relieved to be living in the real world where people have a pragmatic approach to language. It's a world where 'drawers' are understood to be furniture parts, or underwear if you are quaintly old fashioned. When people ask me what I do, I say 'I am someone who draws' - they know what this means because I am using everyday language. Incidentally, when they ask me if I am an 'artist', I say: 'Other people can decide on that - I just draw.'
Dr Tom Jones (ex-Professor)
------ Original Message ------
From: "DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Monday, 11 Jan, 21 At 00:00
Subject: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
There is 1 message totaling 4332 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 8 Jan 2021 to 9 Jan 2021 - Special issue
(#2021-11)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:17:52 +0100
From: Ronald van den Haak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 8 Jan 2021 to 9 Jan 2021 - Special issue (#2021-11)
rectification : i meant homonym , not synonym!!!
Op zo 10 jan. 2021 00:07 schreef Ronald van den Haak <[log in to unmask]
:
*Firstly: a funny precedent of this discussion.*
Page 8 of ‘Ashwin, C. (1982). Encyclopaedia of Drawing: Materials,
Techniques and Style’ reads:
*“I have throughout the text used the word 'draughtsman' to denote someone
who produces drawings of any kind and for whatever reason. Although the
term is generally accepted in art-historical literature as meaning simply
'one who draws', it is unfortunate that, in the popular mind, it has a
close or even exclusive association with engineering drawing. This is a
regrettable state of affairs, since it leaves the man in the street without
a word which is crucial to thought about and discussion of the subject of
drawing. An attempt a few years back to establish the noun 'drawer',
comparable with 'painter' and 'sculptor', to mean 'one who draws'
unfortunately came to nothing.*
*As well as being regrettable, the problem is symptomatic of a fundamental
cultural defect. This is that historically drawing has tended to be
regarded as primarily an ancillary of other activities, such as painting,
sculpting and designing, rather than as a pursuit which might justify the
total life work of a gifted individual. It is for this reason that, even
today, artists of immense ability who more or less confined their
activities to drawing, such as Charles Keene or Aubrey Beardsley, are
widely regarded as belonging to a different league from, let us say.
Pissarro or Whistler.” *
This book can be loaned digitally -free of charge- at the Internet
Archive.
Of course: ‘man on the street’ should now be read as ‘person on the
street’ 😊
The following thesis brought me to the above paragraphs:
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/handle/123456789/43803<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faaltodoc.aalto.fi%2Fhandle%2F123456789%2F43803&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499927057%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=4T5CtcWu4SoxgZma388%2Fvp2PB3nX2LtzJF%2F1N3sZdfM%3D&reserved=0>
*Secondly: my pledge for ‘drawer’ continued*
How bad is it to use a synonym? Context of the use of the term will solve
the issue.
Let me illustrate, stay close to ‘drawers’ but then of the woody, sliding
kind:
*Does a furniture maker think of eyes and noses when he thinks of the face
of a drawer? Does he or she think of sitting down when he thinks of the
bottom of a drawer? Does he or she think of feathers or getting high when
he thinks about a dovetail joint?*
All the best
Ronald van den Haak
Op za 9 jan. 2021 om 23:26 schreef Simon Rae <[log in to unmask]>:
Yes, ‘someone who draws’ is a good one that, as you say Lynn, allows for
everyone to join in. Although I will admit to modifying the declaration
sometimes and saying that I’m ‘someone who scribbles’ or ‘someone who does
cartoons’ depending on the time and place, and who I’m talking with.
I’m fairly passionate about believing that everyone can say that they are
‘someone who draws’. (Unfortunately many don’t because they think the
can’t, which I do not believe.)
Simon
Simon Rae
twitter: @simonrae
On 9 Jan 2021, at 18:30, Lynn Imperatore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I would agree with Tom and Iain. By framing this skillset within a
definition of ’someone who draws’, we remove notions of special mystical
talent, of a province only open to the trained professional. This allows
for everyone/anyone to take up the call to craft images in much the same
way that we do not have to be considered specialist in order to record
thoughts in writing.
Fun discussion — I enjoy how it goes quiet — then reemerges again!
Stay safe everyone.
Lynn
Dr. Lynn Imperatore
7 Old Ashley Hill
Montpelier
Bristol BS6 5JB, UK
[log in to unmask]
www.lynnimperatore.co.uk
hatch-drawing.org
home: 0117 9141109
mobile: 07867 97105
On 9 Jan 2021, at 4:45 pm, Iain MacLeod-Brudenell <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
I like the simplicity and accuracy of Tom’s response
On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 at 8:09 am, Tom Jones <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
I refer to myself as ‘someone who draws’ because it focuses on the
person who does it whilst avoiding confusion with furniture. It also gets
away from all the socio-cultural baggage around the title of ‘artist’
Tom Jones - someone who draws
Sent from my iPhone
On 9 Jan 2021, at 6:59 am, DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
There is 1 message totaling 80973 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 5 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan
2021
(#2021-4)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2021 06:57:56 +0000
From: Stephen Farthing <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 5 Jan 2021
to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4)
I agree
Stephen Farthing
follow me on Instagram @farthingstephen
On Friday, 8 January 2021, 20:11:17 EET, O'Donnell, Hugh F <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Although Graphic Artist as a title has a history of being thought of
as an applied art. Applied Art in turn has a history of be thought of as a
step down from Fine Art. This is the trouble with qualifying Artist with
any other word. The whole question pivots on what the value is of
sectioning artistic practice. Once one has a lable its hard to shake it
off. And with a title comes Entitlement and the expectations that go with
that
On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Jennie Speirs Grant <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
It’s a great discussion and following with interest. The term Graphic
Artist also seems very useful and ties in additionally with discussions on
Literacy, Graphicacy and Numeracy as a proper basis for learning and
development. I’m not expert on this but as I understand it graphicacy
includes both drawing and handwriting, so is wider than the oft quoted
Three “R”s which omit drawing … All best Jennie Speirs Grant Dr
J.S.Grant mafa mag mrss Newcastle upon Tyne From: The UK drawing
research network mailing list <[log in to unmask]> On
Behalf Of Mark Clay
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 11:03 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH
Digest - 5 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4) Greetings to all, from
Oxford UK. I have much enjoyed following this discussion and thank you
for all your interesting contributions. For me, I too think there is great
interest in thinking about the possibilities in the word "graph", its
etymology and its extensions. Graph comes from the ancient greek word
meaning "writing", hence an autograph is one's own writing (or a document
written in it). For me, writing and drawing have a deep-rooted kinship
(both practically and intellectually), so I am interested in the
possibilities of the work "graphic", and especially in the idea that it
might be reclaimed or repurposed for drawing practitioners from the realm
of graphic design and/or what one might loosely call computer based
creativity (not that I have anything against either of those). In that
sense, I wonder if "graphic artist" might be a suitable name. It's other
attraction for me is that is rightly ungendered, unlike many of the English
word options we have already touched upon. Best wishes,
Mark Clay MFA www.markrclay.co.uk
On January 8, 2021 at 2:26 AM, stephen farthing <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
How about ‘graphographer’ as in “photographer “ radiographer “
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 8, 2021, at 2:56 AM, Crawford, Ramona <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi everyone,
In English, I think "draftsperson" is the most elegant option. That
said, I'm American. "Draughtsperson" looks more awkward to me by contrast,
even though it would be pronounced the same way. The term "drawer" would
likely be read incorrectly, as the compartment one pulls out of a dresser
or cabinet.
Ramona
On 1/6/21, 7:28 PM, "The UK drawing research network mailing list on
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Topics of the day:
1. What do you call someone who draws? (3)
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Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 12:52:06 +0300
From: Joe Graham <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Dear Andrea,
Your request for a non-gendered term for drawer got me thinking... in
English this word is a bit tricky for all sorts of reasons, gendered or
otherwise, as others on this thread have pointed out.
However, in Turkish it seems things are slightly different, not least
as there is no gendered pronoun in Turkish: ‘o' stands for he/she/it.
With that in mind, I asked about, and it seems there are two words
for drawer in Turkish, where the difference between them is slight, but
intriguing for the non-native speaker interested in the topic. Let me
explain..
Drawing is Turkish is çizim, coming from the root çiz, and strongly
indicative of çizgi, which means line. Drawings are çizimler.
There are three words for drawing itself, unlike the simple verb/noun
split in English. There is çizim, which means drawing (noun), çizmek, which
means 'to draw', where the mek/mak suffix denotes the act of doing
something, and çizme, which denotes the act of drawing (verb). I had to
double check to make sure that çizmek and çizme were indeed different in
direct use, and it seems they are (çizmeyi seviyor musun? did you like the
act of drawing?)
This leads to two different words for drawer, where the difference in
suffix appears to indicate the kind of drawer one is referring to. There is
çizmci (drawer) and çizer (drawer).
Unlike prefix based English, suffix based Turkish manages to split
what would be the er suffix in English into two. The way to understand the
difference is by example:
çizmci
In Turkish, the ci/cı/çi/çı/çu/çu/cü/cu suffix denotes the subject of
the noun, used where the emphasis is on denoting profession, habits or
being a supporter of something. That said, it can seemingly be added to
almost any word as a way of suggesting someone is a ‘doer’ of that thing,
much like ‘er' in English: balıkcı (fisherman and fishmonger, same word for
both), çorbacı (soup shop/soup seller), tamirci (repairman, but without a
gender), kaçakçı (the one who handles contraband, kaçak, aka smuggler) and
yalancı (liar, the one who tells lies)
çizer
The er/ar/ur/ür suffix on the other hand denotes the subject of the
verb. It is used in the case of yazar, the one who writes, but in the sense
of being the author (coming from yazmak, to write), okur, meaning the one
who reads, but in the sense of being ‘the' reader (from okumak, to read),
görünür, seeming (coming from görünmek, to seem) and the rather wonderfully
named bilgisayar, which is the compound Turkish word for computer,
literally translated as 'information counter', or the one who does the
information counting.
With this in mind, it seems one can pick from either of these two
options, çizmci and çizer, to refer to oneself or others as a drawer. But
there are differences in everyday use: çizimci is generally used to imply
illustrator or technical drawer, whereas çizer implies drawer as in artist
or cartoonist (çizgi film - cartoon), although both terms imply the drawer
as artist very strongly.
However, I’m told that those in the younger generation working in the
creative industries would refer to themselves as çizer if they needed to
express the fact that they were a drawer - apparently no-one of this age
would use çizmci. Personally I am warm to çizmci, not least because of the
freewheeling way in which the ci suffix can seemingly be applied to almost
any activity. The men and women who go door to door collecting old stuff
are known as eskici, coming from eski (old), meaning those who deal with
old things.
All the best with your manuscript
Joe
Dr Joe Graham
Assistant Professor of Visual Communication Design
Faculty of Communication
Kadir Has University, Istanbul
Forthcoming in 2021:
Serial Drawing: Space, Time and the Art Object, Bloomsbury, part of
the Drawing In academic series of books edited by Phil Sawdon, Marsha
Meskimmon and Russell Marshall
The Being of Drawing, Marmalade Publishers of Visual Theory, London
On 5 Jan 2021, at 03:06, DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system <
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There are 3 messages totaling 3264 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. What do you call someone who draws?
2. [External Email] Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call someone
who
draws? (2)
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Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:58:14 +0000
From: Simon Downs <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Dear Andrea and Angie
This has caused me some issues, not least because of the genderedness
of the term draftsman. I tangentially wrote about it in a recent paper.* My
best guess at the issue was ‘drafter’ – as in one who drafts. As in
‘runner’ as one who runs.†
Looking at the evolution of English, I’m sure it will be worked out
in two or three centuries. No hurry.
Cheers.
Simon
*
https://eco.emergentpublications.com/Article/f0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae/academic<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feco.emergentpublications.com%2FArticle%2Ff0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae%2Facademic&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499967034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MqkAgzJIl7nAafKpBfn%2FJ%2FJZtkpmaV4yEV2arSlW4fc%3D&reserved=0>
† Following the French with dessinateur or traceur. Describe the
function.
From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
[log in to unmask]>
Date: Wednesday, 23 December 2020 at 22:19
To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
Yes, you really started something AK!
On Wed, 23 Dec 2020, 9:56 pm Andrea Kantrowitz, <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hello everyone! This is such a great thread.... anyone mind if i
quote you? Working on a book manuscript, thinking this would make a great
2-page spread!
On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 12:33 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Some food for thought:
mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain
(adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human,"
also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined,
civilized." This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling,
earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem-<
https://www.etymonline.com/word/*dhghem-?ref=etymonline_crossreference<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.etymonline.com%2Fword%2F*dhghem-%3Fref%3Detymonline_crossreference&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499967034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Ncstl0lkMvUQcj%2B9af5pUoaCST9NktsoNDmu4p6pJk0%3D&reserved=0>>
"earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes
involved. Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with Old
Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person."
On Dec 22, 2020, at 4:37 AM, John Temperton <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi everyone,
This problem regarding a definition, lies at the heart of my research
interest. Drawing is a misunderstood and marginalised activity, in which
final outcomes are valued over the activity of doing, something we are
biologically predisposed to do in powerful ways sympathetic to all aspects
of both creativity and general education. It is our professional and
societal attitude towards drawing and the activity of drawing in our lived
experience in a social interactionist sense that might ask questions about
the activity's status purpose and usefulness. The fact that there is not a
useful noun for the subject says it all really.
I like 'spraction' Visualizing Thought' as suggested by Tversky. Of
course, few are familiar with the term.
John
John Temperton BA Hons MA RCA PGCE FE FHEA
Senior Lecturer and Course Lead for Graphic Design
[
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________________________________
From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
on behalf of Jean Newman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>>
Sent: 22 December 2020 06:55
To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call someone who draws?
Mark maker takes us back to the palaeolithic roots of our creativity.
On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 at 05:35, mohammad moezzi <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
"Drafter" may not necessarily be an "artist"; I think it is a neutral
word. If we take creativity as a fundamental element of the work of art,
drawings are not necessarily artworks. For instance, in architecture
discipline, "drafter" usually executes the creative work of another person.
Architectural drafter draws what architect- the artist- commands. Maybe
that is why technical architectural drawings are not considered as artworks
usually, while preliminary sketches, drawn by the architect, are exhibited
as artworks sometimes. Could we conclude drafters can be assumed as artists
if only they draw forth their own idea and if they are not mediators only?
Sincerely,
Mohammad Moézzi
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 9:50 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I thought a drawer was part of a cupboard
Hugh O'Donnell
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On Dec 21, 2020, at 23:48, stephen farthing <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
I wonder if there needs to be a noun ? Drawer is such an ugly word.
Unlike “runner” which has a ring to it. Architects , engineers, doctors ,
cartographers , children , artists and all the rest, draw as a ‘part of
their practice’ - sure a few people only ever draw but those are usually
artists . So what we are talking about is “when artists draw “ and “when
mathematicians draw”. I think Leonardo was substantially more than a
Drawer!
With the Seasons Greetings
Stephen Farthing
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 22, 2020, at 3:59 AM, O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
An Artist
Sent from my iPad
On Dec 21, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Seymour Simmons <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Andrea and everyone,
This is a tough question! I've gone with 'draftsperson' mostly but it
is awkward. Maybe Howard's solution is the best, but lately I've been
finding myself capitalizing too many other words. Anyway, I'm enjoying the
conversation!
Best wishes to one and all for a safe and happy holiday season, and
may 2021 be a better year in every way!
Seymour
On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 12:28 PM Howard Riley <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Faced with the same problem, I opted for ‘Drawer’, capitalised to
indicate a person rather than a sliding storage unit!
Howard
(Also avoids the smutty connotation of the uncapitalised plural)
Sent from my iPhone
Professor Emeritus Howard Riley PhD MA(RCA) CertDes FRSA FHEA
Swansea College of Art, University of Wales Trinity St David, Wales,
UK
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On 21 Dec 2020, at 15:50, Lucy Lyons <
[log in to unmask]<mailto:
[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Hi Andrea
I say drawer too!
Best wishes
Lucy
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On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 15:33, Andrea Kantrowitz
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
wrote:
I'm looking for a general non-gendered term. (ie sub for
draughtsman.) draughtsperson is way too cumbersome. I'm using "drawer" for
now. any suggestions?
Thanks so much!
Andrea
Dr. Andrea Kantrowitz
Graduate Program Coordinator
Assistant Professor
Art Education
SUNY New Paltz
1 Hawk Drive, New Paltz, NY 12561
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 16:03:14 +0000
From: sarah tutt <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [External Email] Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call
someone who draws?
Hi,
Really interesting to hear thoughts on the notion of pull and push.
As part
of my MFA I am working with the gesture of PUSH in the expanded field
of
drawing, framing PUSH as a grammar of drawing that relates to the
future.
Also in relation to naming - I struggle with draftsman/person/woman
as it
implies the act of drawing is preliminary.
Also - as part of my investigations into relationships between
Drawing and
TimeI I have recently written a drawing score. I am currently looking
for a
small number of artists who might be interested in actioning the
score. The
commitment involves walking the same urban route (that you choose)
for the
duration of 5 minutes whilst drawing and repeating this 12 times to
produce
12 postcard size responses. If anyone is interested in taking part
let me
know - I will send you the score, the postcards and a pen, with a SAE
to
return them to me (I can return drawings to you if you so wish once I
have
documented them). Anyone who is interested please drop me a line....
[log in to unmask]
Thanks
Sarah Tutt
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 10:47 PM David Edgar <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
Drawing
Hi Chris. The action of vacuum as pushing and pulling matter - air,
wind,
sail / mark, medium, maker - to empty one part whilst filling another
is a
great analogy for drawing. Absolutely, for me, drawing is an uneasy
concoction of push and pull / fullness and emptiness. Not just in the
physical sense of doing but also in the thinking/empty moments just
prior
to and in that mysterious moment when making a mark. It’s also well
before these moments as one thinks in and out of ideas and imagines
them
forming and taking place. Drawing begins and proceeds in this
push/pull
‘vacuum’ of experience. The outcome / product is often somewhat
irritating and irrelevant but in the end it is what it is.
On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 10:38 pm, Chris Heape <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Hi,
Just for fun, I couldn’t help but muse on the link between drawing as
a
linear activity and the notion of drawing as pulling.
In his talk, https://vimeo.com/286418661,<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvimeo.com%2F286418661%2C&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577500156927%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZyxRA1YAe5JO0IJ52jBTsj6ftzUCCF3mZMYFIxG1Y2Q%3D&reserved=0> Hadi Tabatabai, not only
introduces the usual definition of a line as the shortest length
between
two points, but also introduces the notion of a line as an experience
between two points. I can’t remember who he cites, but it’s in the
video.
I’d like to expand on that notion of experience in relation to
drawing a
line: that drawing a line is an experience. I know for sure that when
I
draw a line, and most of my drawings are made up of parallel
horizontal
lines, that the feel and touch of graphite on paper, the pressure,
the
delicacy or not or my interaction is a very complete experience which
can
altogether influence the character of a drawn line.
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------------------------------
End of DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
*********************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2021 12:57:26 +0100
From: Ronald van den Haak <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
ok folks
let's call it a draw
:)
Op ma 11 jan. 2021 12:29 schreef Leah, Joanna <[log in to unmask]>:
> 'I just draw' - I like that....
>
>
> I struggle with the term artist despite so called practicing for many
> years. I like Herman Melville's short story that Gilles Deleuze wrote on
> 'I prefer not to'. I prefer not has defined so many aspects of being on the
> edge of disciplines. I am not... can define what we are. However, to just
> state 'I just draw' is compellingly, direct, stake in the ground and an
> active approach to practice.
>
> Thank you!
>
>
> Joanna Leah
> Senior Lecturer Contextual Studies Art & Design
> *Please note my research day is Friday and unable to respond on this week
> day.*
>
> Leeds School of Arts
> Leeds Beckett University,
> A305, Broadcasting Place, Woodhouse Lane, Leeds, LS2 9PD
> Email: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> Website: https://www.joannaleah.com/
> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Joannaleah7
> Instagram: JoannaLeah_art
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* The UK drawing research network mailing list <
> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of TOM JONES <
> [log in to unmask]>
> *Sent:* 11 January 2021 10:28
> *To:* [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to
> 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
>
> Hello,
>
> After forty-five or so years coping with verbal ball-room dancing in
> Higher Education Art & Design, I am now relieved to be living in the real
> world where people have a pragmatic approach to language. It's a world
> where 'drawers' are understood to be furniture parts, or underwear if you
> are quaintly old fashioned. When people ask me what I do, I say 'I am
> someone who draws' - they know what this means because I am using everyday
> language. Incidentally, when they ask me if I am an 'artist', I say: 'Other
> people can decide on that - I just draw.'
>
>
> Dr Tom Jones (ex-Professor)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, 11 Jan, 21 At 00:00
> Subject: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 9 Jan 2021 to 10 Jan 2021 (#2021-19)
>
> There is 1 message totaling 4332 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 8 Jan 2021 to 9 Jan 2021 - Special issue
> (#2021-11)
>
> ########################################################################
>
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 08:17:52 +0100
> From: Ronald van den Haak <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 8 Jan 2021 to 9 Jan 2021 - Special
> issue (#2021-11)
>
> rectification : i meant homonym , not synonym!!!
>
>
>
> Op zo 10 jan. 2021 00:07 schreef Ronald van den Haak <
> [log in to unmask]
> :
>
> *Firstly: a funny precedent of this discussion.*
>
> Page 8 of ‘Ashwin, C. (1982). Encyclopaedia of Drawing: Materials,
> Techniques and Style’ reads:
>
> *“I have throughout the text used the word 'draughtsman' to denote someone
> who produces drawings of any kind and for whatever reason. Although the
> term is generally accepted in art-historical literature as meaning simply
> 'one who draws', it is unfortunate that, in the popular mind, it has a
> close or even exclusive association with engineering drawing. This is a
> regrettable state of affairs, since it leaves the man in the street without
> a word which is crucial to thought about and discussion of the subject of
> drawing. An attempt a few years back to establish the noun 'drawer',
> comparable with 'painter' and 'sculptor', to mean 'one who draws'
> unfortunately came to nothing.*
>
>
> *As well as being regrettable, the problem is symptomatic of a fundamental
> cultural defect. This is that historically drawing has tended to be
> regarded as primarily an ancillary of other activities, such as painting,
> sculpting and designing, rather than as a pursuit which might justify the
> total life work of a gifted individual. It is for this reason that, even
> today, artists of immense ability who more or less confined their
> activities to drawing, such as Charles Keene or Aubrey Beardsley, are
> widely regarded as belonging to a different league from, let us say.
> Pissarro or Whistler.” *
> This book can be loaned digitally -free of charge- at the Internet
> Archive.
> Of course: ‘man on the street’ should now be read as ‘person on the
> street’ 😊
> The following thesis brought me to the above paragraphs:
> https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/handle/123456789/43803
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Faaltodoc.aalto.fi%2Fhandle%2F123456789%2F43803&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499927057%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=4T5CtcWu4SoxgZma388%2Fvp2PB3nX2LtzJF%2F1N3sZdfM%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> *Secondly: my pledge for ‘drawer’ continued*
> How bad is it to use a synonym? Context of the use of the term will solve
> the issue.
>
> Let me illustrate, stay close to ‘drawers’ but then of the woody, sliding
> kind:
>
>
>
> *Does a furniture maker think of eyes and noses when he thinks of the face
> of a drawer? Does he or she think of sitting down when he thinks of the
> bottom of a drawer? Does he or she think of feathers or getting high when
> he thinks about a dovetail joint?*
>
>
>
> All the best
>
> Ronald van den Haak
>
>
> Op za 9 jan. 2021 om 23:26 schreef Simon Rae <[log in to unmask]>:
>
> Yes, ‘someone who draws’ is a good one that, as you say Lynn, allows for
> everyone to join in. Although I will admit to modifying the declaration
> sometimes and saying that I’m ‘someone who scribbles’ or ‘someone who does
> cartoons’ depending on the time and place, and who I’m talking with.
>
> I’m fairly passionate about believing that everyone can say that they are
> ‘someone who draws’. (Unfortunately many don’t because they think the
> can’t, which I do not believe.)
>
> Simon
>
> Simon Rae
> twitter: @simonrae
>
> On 9 Jan 2021, at 18:30, Lynn Imperatore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> I would agree with Tom and Iain. By framing this skillset within a
> definition of ’someone who draws’, we remove notions of special mystical
> talent, of a province only open to the trained professional. This allows
> for everyone/anyone to take up the call to craft images in much the same
> way that we do not have to be considered specialist in order to record
> thoughts in writing.
>
> Fun discussion — I enjoy how it goes quiet — then reemerges again!
> Stay safe everyone.
>
> Lynn
>
>
> Dr. Lynn Imperatore
> 7 Old Ashley Hill
> Montpelier
> Bristol BS6 5JB, UK
>
> [log in to unmask]
> www.lynnimperatore.co.uk
> hatch-drawing.org
>
> home: 0117 9141109
> mobile: 07867 97105
>
>
>
> On 9 Jan 2021, at 4:45 pm, Iain MacLeod-Brudenell <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> I like the simplicity and accuracy of Tom’s response
>
>
>
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2021 at 8:09 am, Tom Jones <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> I refer to myself as ‘someone who draws’ because it focuses on the
> person who does it whilst avoiding confusion with furniture. It also gets
> away from all the socio-cultural baggage around the title of ‘artist’
>
> Tom Jones - someone who draws
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 9 Jan 2021, at 6:59 am, DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> There is 1 message totaling 80973 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
> 1. [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 5 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan
> 2021
> (#2021-4)
>
>
> ########################################################################
>
> To unsubscribe from the DRAWING-RESEARCH list, click the following
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>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 9 Jan 2021 06:57:56 +0000
> From: Stephen Farthing <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH Digest - 5 Jan 2021
> to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4)
>
> I agree
>
> Stephen Farthing
> follow me on Instagram @farthingstephen
>
>
>
> On Friday, 8 January 2021, 20:11:17 EET, O'Donnell, Hugh F <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Although Graphic Artist as a title has a history of being thought of
> as an applied art. Applied Art in turn has a history of be thought of as a
> step down from Fine Art. This is the trouble with qualifying Artist with
> any other word. The whole question pivots on what the value is of
> sectioning artistic practice. Once one has a lable its hard to shake it
> off. And with a title comes Entitlement and the expectations that go with
> that
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:47 PM, Jennie Speirs Grant <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> It’s a great discussion and following with interest. The term Graphic
> Artist also seems very useful and ties in additionally with discussions on
> Literacy, Graphicacy and Numeracy as a proper basis for learning and
> development. I’m not expert on this but as I understand it graphicacy
> includes both drawing and handwriting, so is wider than the oft quoted
> Three “R”s which omit drawing … All best Jennie Speirs Grant Dr
> J.S.Grant mafa mag mrss Newcastle upon Tyne From: The UK drawing
> research network mailing list <[log in to unmask]> On
> Behalf Of Mark Clay
> Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 11:03 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] [DRAWING-RESEARCH] DRAWING-RESEARCH
> Digest - 5 Jan 2021 to 6 Jan 2021 (#2021-4) Greetings to all, from
> Oxford UK. I have much enjoyed following this discussion and thank you
> for all your interesting contributions. For me, I too think there is great
> interest in thinking about the possibilities in the word "graph", its
> etymology and its extensions. Graph comes from the ancient greek word
> meaning "writing", hence an autograph is one's own writing (or a document
> written in it). For me, writing and drawing have a deep-rooted kinship
> (both practically and intellectually), so I am interested in the
> possibilities of the work "graphic", and especially in the idea that it
> might be reclaimed or repurposed for drawing practitioners from the realm
> of graphic design and/or what one might loosely call computer based
> creativity (not that I have anything against either of those). In that
> sense, I wonder if "graphic artist" might be a suitable name. It's other
> attraction for me is that is rightly ungendered, unlike many of the English
> word options we have already touched upon. Best wishes,
> Mark Clay MFA www.markrclay.co.uk
>
> On January 8, 2021 at 2:26 AM, stephen farthing <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> How about ‘graphographer’ as in “photographer “ radiographer “
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2021, at 2:56 AM, Crawford, Ramona <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
>
>
> In English, I think "draftsperson" is the most elegant option. That
> said, I'm American. "Draughtsperson" looks more awkward to me by contrast,
> even though it would be pronounced the same way. The term "drawer" would
> likely be read incorrectly, as the compartment one pulls out of a dresser
> or cabinet.
>
>
>
> Ramona
>
>
>
> On 1/6/21, 7:28 PM, "The UK drawing research network mailing list on
> behalf of DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system" <
> [log in to unmask] on behalf of [log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> There are 3 messages totaling 9348 lines in this issue.
>
>
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>
>
> 1. What do you call someone who draws? (3)
>
>
>
>
> ########################################################################
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the DRAWING-RESEARCH list, click the following
> link:
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2021 12:52:06 +0300
>
> From: Joe Graham <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
>
>
>
> Dear Andrea,
>
>
>
> Your request for a non-gendered term for drawer got me thinking... in
> English this word is a bit tricky for all sorts of reasons, gendered or
> otherwise, as others on this thread have pointed out.
>
>
>
> However, in Turkish it seems things are slightly different, not least
> as there is no gendered pronoun in Turkish: ‘o' stands for he/she/it.
>
> With that in mind, I asked about, and it seems there are two words
> for drawer in Turkish, where the difference between them is slight, but
> intriguing for the non-native speaker interested in the topic. Let me
> explain..
>
>
>
> Drawing is Turkish is çizim, coming from the root çiz, and strongly
> indicative of çizgi, which means line. Drawings are çizimler.
>
>
>
> There are three words for drawing itself, unlike the simple verb/noun
> split in English. There is çizim, which means drawing (noun), çizmek, which
> means 'to draw', where the mek/mak suffix denotes the act of doing
> something, and çizme, which denotes the act of drawing (verb). I had to
> double check to make sure that çizmek and çizme were indeed different in
> direct use, and it seems they are (çizmeyi seviyor musun? did you like the
> act of drawing?)
>
>
>
> This leads to two different words for drawer, where the difference in
> suffix appears to indicate the kind of drawer one is referring to. There is
> çizmci (drawer) and çizer (drawer).
>
> Unlike prefix based English, suffix based Turkish manages to split
> what would be the er suffix in English into two. The way to understand the
> difference is by example:
>
>
>
> çizmci
>
> In Turkish, the ci/cı/çi/çı/çu/çu/cü/cu suffix denotes the subject of
> the noun, used where the emphasis is on denoting profession, habits or
> being a supporter of something. That said, it can seemingly be added to
> almost any word as a way of suggesting someone is a ‘doer’ of that thing,
> much like ‘er' in English: balıkcı (fisherman and fishmonger, same word for
> both), çorbacı (soup shop/soup seller), tamirci (repairman, but without a
> gender), kaçakçı (the one who handles contraband, kaçak, aka smuggler) and
> yalancı (liar, the one who tells lies)
>
>
>
> çizer
>
> The er/ar/ur/ür suffix on the other hand denotes the subject of the
> verb. It is used in the case of yazar, the one who writes, but in the sense
> of being the author (coming from yazmak, to write), okur, meaning the one
> who reads, but in the sense of being ‘the' reader (from okumak, to read),
> görünür, seeming (coming from görünmek, to seem) and the rather wonderfully
> named bilgisayar, which is the compound Turkish word for computer,
> literally translated as 'information counter', or the one who does the
> information counting.
>
>
>
> With this in mind, it seems one can pick from either of these two
> options, çizmci and çizer, to refer to oneself or others as a drawer. But
> there are differences in everyday use: çizimci is generally used to imply
> illustrator or technical drawer, whereas çizer implies drawer as in artist
> or cartoonist (çizgi film - cartoon), although both terms imply the drawer
> as artist very strongly.
>
>
>
> However, I’m told that those in the younger generation working in the
> creative industries would refer to themselves as çizer if they needed to
> express the fact that they were a drawer - apparently no-one of this age
> would use çizmci. Personally I am warm to çizmci, not least because of the
> freewheeling way in which the ci suffix can seemingly be applied to almost
> any activity. The men and women who go door to door collecting old stuff
> are known as eskici, coming from eski (old), meaning those who deal with
> old things.
>
>
>
> All the best with your manuscript
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> Dr Joe Graham
>
> Assistant Professor of Visual Communication Design
>
> Faculty of Communication
>
> Kadir Has University, Istanbul
>
>
>
> Forthcoming in 2021:
>
>
>
> Serial Drawing: Space, Time and the Art Object, Bloomsbury, part of
> the Drawing In academic series of books edited by Phil Sawdon, Marsha
> Meskimmon and Russell Marshall
>
> The Being of Drawing, Marmalade Publishers of Visual Theory, London
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Jan 2021, at 03:06, DRAWING-RESEARCH automatic digest system <
> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There are 3 messages totaling 3264 lines in this issue.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 1. What do you call someone who draws?
>
>
>
> 2. [External Email] Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call someone
> who
>
>
>
> draws? (2)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ########################################################################
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from the DRAWING-RESEARCH list, click the following
> link:
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This message was issued to members of
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2021 11:58:14 +0000
>
>
>
> From: Simon Downs <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Andrea and Angie
>
>
>
> This has caused me some issues, not least because of the genderedness
> of the term draftsman. I tangentially wrote about it in a recent paper.* My
> best guess at the issue was ‘drafter’ – as in one who drafts. As in
> ‘runner’ as one who runs.†
>
>
>
> Looking at the evolution of English, I’m sure it will be worked out
> in two or three centuries. No hurry.
>
>
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Simon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> https://eco.emergentpublications.com/Article/f0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae/academic
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Feco.emergentpublications.com%2FArticle%2Ff0bed984-c4d5-449f-85c4-f7577a8cfcae%2Facademic&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499967034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=MqkAgzJIl7nAafKpBfn%2FJ%2FJZtkpmaV4yEV2arSlW4fc%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
> † Following the French with dessinateur or traceur. Describe the
> function.
>
>
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> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
> [log in to unmask]>
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> Date: Wednesday, 23 December 2020 at 22:19
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> To: [log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
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> Subject: Re: What do you call someone who draws?
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> Yes, you really started something AK!
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> On Wed, 23 Dec 2020, 9:56 pm Andrea Kantrowitz, <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> Hello everyone! This is such a great thread.... anyone mind if i
> quote you? Working on a book manuscript, thinking this would make a great
> 2-page spread!
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> On Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 12:33 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> Some food for thought:
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> mid-15c., humain, humaigne, "human," from Old French humain, umain
> (adj.) "of or belonging to man" (12c.), from Latin humanus "of man, human,"
> also "humane, philanthropic, kind, gentle, polite; learned, refined,
> civilized." This is in part from PIE *(dh)ghomon-, literally "earthling,
> earthly being," as opposed to the gods (from root *dhghem-<
> https://www.etymonline.com/word/*dhghem-?ref=etymonline_crossreference
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.etymonline.com%2Fword%2F*dhghem-%3Fref%3Detymonline_crossreference&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499967034%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Ncstl0lkMvUQcj%2B9af5pUoaCST9NktsoNDmu4p6pJk0%3D&reserved=0>
> >
> "earth"), but there is no settled explanation of the sound changes
> involved. Compare Hebrew adam "man," from adamah "ground." Cognate with Old
> Lithuanian žmuo (accusative žmuni) "man, male person."
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> On Dec 22, 2020, at 4:37 AM, John Temperton <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> Hi everyone,
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> This problem regarding a definition, lies at the heart of my research
> interest. Drawing is a misunderstood and marginalised activity, in which
> final outcomes are valued over the activity of doing, something we are
> biologically predisposed to do in powerful ways sympathetic to all aspects
> of both creativity and general education. It is our professional and
> societal attitude towards drawing and the activity of drawing in our lived
> experience in a social interactionist sense that might ask questions about
> the activity's status purpose and usefulness. The fact that there is not a
> useful noun for the subject says it all really.
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> I like 'spraction' Visualizing Thought' as suggested by Tversky. Of
> course, few are familiar with the term.
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> John
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> John Temperton BA Hons MA RCA PGCE FE FHEA
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> Senior Lecturer and Course Lead for Graphic Design
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> [
>
> https://my-email-signature.link/signature.gif?u=1059654&e=127656217&v=2e8540d8279ca4b7b75c7a748bec2ddb5b7dc3f8164d8dec848f7a883814c38f
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmy-email-signature.link%2Fsignature.gif%3Fu%3D1059654%26e%3D127656217%26v%3D2e8540d8279ca4b7b75c7a748bec2ddb5b7dc3f8164d8dec848f7a883814c38f&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499977031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=A%2FbTjnQ1rYywG%2B4B%2FB7tlE4Mwbcq51QUJwfNMpWE9OY%3D&reserved=0>
> ]
>
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> ________________________________
>
>
>
> From: The UK drawing research network mailing list <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
> on behalf of Jean Newman <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>>
>
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> Sent: 22 December 2020 06:55
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> To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]> <[log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>>
>
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> Subject: Re: [DRAWING-RESEARCH] What do you call someone who draws?
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> Mark maker takes us back to the palaeolithic roots of our creativity.
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> On Tue, 22 Dec 2020 at 05:35, mohammad moezzi <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> "Drafter" may not necessarily be an "artist"; I think it is a neutral
> word. If we take creativity as a fundamental element of the work of art,
> drawings are not necessarily artworks. For instance, in architecture
> discipline, "drafter" usually executes the creative work of another person.
> Architectural drafter draws what architect- the artist- commands. Maybe
> that is why technical architectural drawings are not considered as artworks
> usually, while preliminary sketches, drawn by the architect, are exhibited
> as artworks sometimes. Could we conclude drafters can be assumed as artists
> if only they draw forth their own idea and if they are not mediators only?
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> Sincerely,
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> Mohammad Moézzi
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> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 9:50 PM O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> I thought a drawer was part of a cupboard
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> Hugh O'Donnell
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> www.bodyecho.com<
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> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bodyecho.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cj.temperton%40YORKSJ.AC.UK%7Cc6065c041f6041b6104208d8a646aec5%7C5c8ae38ef85b4309b7ec862815a37aee%7C0%7C0%7C637442170556039835%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=9XAgJEqdt0gh9R9Osd6AtXheWseV1rQ6%2FWkW32sMkps%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bodyecho.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499977031%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BmXtJCxSFAKEWTBLfUXqYwve%2BXr7Dnxm5Z%2B2fNmeNfA%3D&reserved=0>
> >
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> www.hughodonnell.com<
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> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hughodonnell.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cj.temperton%40YORKSJ.AC.UK%7Cc6065c041f6041b6104208d8a646aec5%7C5c8ae38ef85b4309b7ec862815a37aee%7C0%7C0%7C637442170556039835%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=BSL2fMQUR2PFQkhjK4LVSBEqAIiw8doF2ukWAxTF6iU%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hughodonnell.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499987021%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=hfnqrVLUjBXvYRQ1Kg6Ah6nUnb3i%2F7zXpXVpyMZXBDo%3D&reserved=0>
> >
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> On Dec 21, 2020, at 23:48, stephen farthing <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> I wonder if there needs to be a noun ? Drawer is such an ugly word.
> Unlike “runner” which has a ring to it. Architects , engineers, doctors ,
> cartographers , children , artists and all the rest, draw as a ‘part of
> their practice’ - sure a few people only ever draw but those are usually
> artists . So what we are talking about is “when artists draw “ and “when
> mathematicians draw”. I think Leonardo was substantially more than a
> Drawer!
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> With the Seasons Greetings
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> Stephen Farthing
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> Sent from my iPhone
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> On Dec 22, 2020, at 3:59 AM, O'Donnell, Hugh F <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> An Artist
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> Sent from my iPad
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> On Dec 21, 2020, at 1:37 PM, Seymour Simmons <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> Hi Andrea and everyone,
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> This is a tough question! I've gone with 'draftsperson' mostly but it
> is awkward. Maybe Howard's solution is the best, but lately I've been
> finding myself capitalizing too many other words. Anyway, I'm enjoying the
> conversation!
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> Best wishes to one and all for a safe and happy holiday season, and
> may 2021 be a better year in every way!
>
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> Seymour
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> On Mon, Dec 21, 2020 at 12:28 PM Howard Riley <
> [log in to unmask]<mailto:
> [log in to unmask]>> wrote:
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> Faced with the same problem, I opted for ‘Drawer’, capitalised to
> indicate a person rather than a sliding storage unit!
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> Howard
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> (Also avoids the smutty connotation of the uncapitalised plural)
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> Sent from my iPhone
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>
> Professor Emeritus Howard Riley PhD MA(RCA) CertDes FRSA FHEA
>
>
>
> Swansea College of Art, University of Wales Trinity St David, Wales,
> UK
>
>
>
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Howard_Riley
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FHoward_Riley&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499987021%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=mTZiFokCVGk2dRC1IzQq8d0qNMsoBOaeIGlgFBw5Ze0%3D&reserved=0>
> <
>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FHoward_Riley&data=04%7C01%7Cj.temperton%40YORKSJ.AC.UK%7Cc6065c041f6041b6104208d8a646aec5%7C5c8ae38ef85b4309b7ec862815a37aee%7C0%7C0%7C637442170556049832%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=lHTxbcyLFZK2h7eonukgMwViyYtp%2FNcqu4o4m5O45K4%3D&reserved=0
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fprofile%2FHoward_Riley&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499997019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=eKTlcftoid%2F69t0QD5LjjIyq3PYNsiOfY65YnBuzL3w%3D&reserved=0>
> >
>
>
>
>
> https://howardriley.wordpress.com
> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhowardriley.wordpress.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7CJ.Leah%40leedsbeckett.ac.uk%7C88f6d0c6c57e4e31a91908d8b61bba7d%7Cd79a81124fbe417aa112cd0fb490d85c%7C0%7C0%7C637459577499997019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=om%2Bi43mb%2BFHY493fdkDYjwhDQUzXpImEnHyuFvcdJw4%3D&reserved=0>
> <
>
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhowardriley.wordpress.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cj.temperton%40YORKSJ.AC.UK%7Cc6065c041f6041b6104208d8a646aec5%7C5c8ae38ef85b4309b7ec862815a37aee%7C0%7C0%7C637442170556049832%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sakUCBJDRJ1Ln4UJ9CSEfF%2BByg3dcWG3Gcw8%2F8xpL5U%3D&reserved=0
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> >
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> <
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