What could possibly go wrong?
-James Holton
MAD Scientist
On 6/29/2020 6:17 PM, Edward A. Berry wrote:
> Now can we get rid of all the superfluous disks in our RAID? Or at
> least not replace them when they fail?
>
> On 06/29/2020 06:24 PM, Andreas Förster wrote:
>> I like to think that the reflections I carefully measured at high
>> multiplicity are not redundant, which the dictionary on my computer
>> defines as "not or no longer needed or useful; superfluous" and the
>> American Heritage Dictionary as "exceeding what is necessary or
>> natural; superfluous" and "needlessly repetitive; verbose".
>>
>> Please don't use the term Needless repetitivity in your Table 1. It
>> sends the wrong message. Multiplicity is good.
>>
>> All best.
>>
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:03 AM James Holton <[log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>>
>> I have found that the use of "redundancy" vs "multiplicity"
>> correlates very well with the speaker's favorite processing
>> software. The Denzo/HKL program scalepack outputs "redundancy",
>> whereas scala/aimless and other more Europe-centric programs output
>> "multiplicity".
>>
>> At least it is not as bad as "intensity", which is so ambiguous
>> as to be almost useless as a word on its own.
>>
>> -James Holton
>> MAD Scientist
>>
>> On 6/24/2020 10:27 AM, Bernhard Rupp wrote:
>>>
>>> > Oh, and some of us prefer the word 'multiplicity' ;-0____
>>>
>>> Hmmm…maybe not. ‘Multiplicity’ in crystallography is context
>>> sensitive, and not uniquely defined. It can refer to ____
>>>
>>> 1. the position multiplicity (number of equivalent sites per
>>> unit cell, aka Wyckoff-Multiplicity), the only (!) cif use of
>>> multiplicity____
>>> 2. the multiplicity of the reflection, which means the
>>> superposition of reflections with the same /d/ (mostly powder
>>> diffraction) ____
>>> 3. the multiplicity of observations, aka redundancy.____
>>>
>>> While (a) and (b) are clearly defined, (c) is an arbitrary
>>> experimental number.____
>>>
>>> How from (a) real space symmetry follows (b) in reciprocal space
>>> (including the epsilon zones, another ‘multiplicity’) is explained
>>> here ____
>>>
>>> https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://scripts.iucr.org/cgi-bin/paper?a14080__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-s72_nF7$>
>>> ____
>>>
>>> and also on page 306 in BMC.____
>>>
>>> Too much multiplicity might create duplicity… ____
>>>
>>> Cheers, BR____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Jon Cooper____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> On 23 Jun 2020 22:04, "Peat, Tom (Manufacturing, Parkville)"
>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:____
>>>
>>> I would just like to point out that for those of us who have
>>> worked too many times with P1 or P21 that even 360 degrees will not
>>> give you 'super' anomalous differences. ____
>>>
>>> I'm not a minimalist when it comes to data- redundancy is a
>>> good thing to have. ____
>>>
>>> cheers, tom ____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Tom Peat
>>> Proteins Group
>>> Biomedical Program, CSIRO
>>> 343 Royal Parade
>>> Parkville, VIC, 3052
>>> +613 9662 7304
>>> +614 57 539 419
>>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> ____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>>>
>>> *From:*CCP4 bulletin board <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> on behalf of
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2020 1:10 AM
>>> *To:* [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [ccp4bb] number of frames to get a full
>>> dataset? ____
>>>
>>> ____
>>>
>>> Someone told me there is a cubic space group where you can
>>> get away with something like 11 degrees of data. It would be
>>> interesting if that's correct. These minimum ranges for data
>>> collection rely on the crystal being pre-oriented, which is
>>> unheard-of these days, although they can help if someone is nagging
>>> you to get off the beam line or if your diffraction fades quickly.
>>> Going for 180 degrees always makes sense for a well-behaved crystal,
>>> or 360 degrees if you want super anomalous differences. Hope this
>>> helps a bit. ____
>>>
>>> Jon Cooper____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> On 23 Jun 2020 07:29, Andreas Förster
>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>> wrote:____
>>>
>>> Hi Murpholino,____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> in my opinion (*), the question is neither number of
>>> frames nor degrees. The only thing that matters to your crystal is
>>> dose. How many photons does your crystal take before it dies?
>>> Consequently, the question to ask is How best to use photons. Some
>>> people have done exactly that.____
>>>
>>> https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1107/S2059798319003528__;!!GobTDDpD7A!Z-SrnEqSZwQOXWOwbMCkZ1GB3fvdFuQ5lzYUYwQdUVTCALc3j9O3xqX7-hiQXkxe$>____
>>>
>>>
>>> All best.____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Andreas____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> (*) Disclaimer: I benefit when you use PILATUS or EIGER
>>> - but I want you to use them to your advantage.____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:04 AM Murpholino Peligro
>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:____
>>>
>>> Hi.
>>> Quick question...____
>>>
>>> I have seen *somewhere* that to get a 'full dataset
>>> we need to collect n frames':____
>>>
>>> at least 180 frames if symmetry is X____
>>>
>>> at least 90 frames if symmetry is Y____
>>>
>>> at least 45 frames if symmetry is Z____
>>>
>>> Can somebody point where is *somewhere*? ____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> ...also...____
>>>
>>> what other factors can change n... besides symmetry
>>> and radiation damage?____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
>>> Thanks____
>>>
>>> __ __
>>>
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>>> ____
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- ____
>>>
>>> Andreas Förster, Ph.D.____
>>>
>>> Application Scientist Crystallography, Area Sales
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>>>
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