There is also something to be said about Teamlab defining themselves as
"art"? Do they? Do they care? To me the way they present their work is
framed as a form of heightened entertainment. Both Tarkovsky and Michael
Bay are filmmakers but probably approach their self-definitions differently
within the realm of the 7th art.
Alex Czetwertynski | c: 213 268 7185 | alexczetwertynski.com
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 1:20 PM Johannes Birringer (Staff) <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> thanks Christiane, for pointing this out!
>
> regards
> Johannes
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org <
> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Christiane Paul,
> Curatorial <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 24 June 2019 17:10:05
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] From new Barracuda Re: curating VR Art
>
> I don’t know how closely you all have worked with teamLab — their work
> spans a spectrum, from the straightforward commercial to the reconfiguring
> of spatiality to some political pieces. (Japan obviously makes much less of
> a distinction between art and design, which can be problematic in a Western
> context.) teamLab’s work is also deeply embedded in aesthetics of Japanese
> art and culture, which may require some "translation" — e.g. their work on
> what they call "ultra subjective" space is a continuation of the depiction
> of people and scenery as all relative to each other in traditional Japanese
> screens or scroll paintings and tries to play with agency through multiple
> viewpoints within one virtual space. This is just one small example, I just
> think it's problematic to dismiss all their work as merely decorative,
> they're also working within a very defined conceptual framework.
> Christiane
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org <
> [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Kelani Nichole <
> [log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, June 24, 2019 11:21:12 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: From new Barracuda Re: curating VR Art
>
> THANK YOU Simon. 👏👏👏 Couldn't agree more.
>
>
> Founder, TRANSFER <http://transfer.gallery>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 9:47 AM Simon Biggs <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > I know Teamlab’s work well. I find it decorative and trivial. Cloudgate
> > are not much better. There is no intent in these works to take apart and
> > remake the world in a manner that seeks to transform our understanding of
> > it. For me that is what art does - transform our understanding of things.
> > Anything less is decoration.
> >
> > best
> >
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > Simon Biggs
> > [log in to unmask]
> > http://www.littlepig.org.uk
> > http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs
> > https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK
> [
> https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AGF-l78p5y4qgNZ1wjlTenqTzNJPijr8a73zlrFvpw=s900-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no
> ]<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
>
> Simon Biggs - YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
> www.youtube.com
> art works by Simon Biggs
>
>
>
> > http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs
> Simon Biggs Home Page, University of South Australia<
> http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs>
> www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au
> Professional home page for Professor Simon Biggs, Professor of Art, School
> of Art, Architecture and Design, University of South Australia
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On 24 Jun 2019, at 21:32, Johannes Birringer (Staff) <
> > [log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > These comments on shared reality and interaction with environments or
> > others, Simon, are indeed constructive and helpful; your experience is
> > somewhat similar perhaps to mine as you also have worked a lot with
> > performers and in performance contexts. VR - as a visual and immersive
> > medium ØC as you also suggest, however seems to now flow more often into
> a
> > visual arts/museum./gallery and spectacle context to be consumed? I
> wonder
> > now how curators or museums try to "sell" us this kind of work that we
> > sometimes see (why should we see it, indeed?).
> > >
> > > As an example, I was discussing a very intriguing and affectively
> > designed dance work ("Formosa", by Cloud Gate Dance Theatre) with a
> Chinese
> > Phd researcher, we'd both seen the work and admired the complex
> > digital-projected calligraphic moving scenography, interacting so to
> speak
> > with the dancers, as the words and poems that were floating down slowly
> > turned more elemental, became clouds, black and grey shadows, altering
> > their course and textures, raining down.
> > >
> > > A few weeks ago, at the Barbican Center show on artificial
> intelligence,
> > "AI: More than Human,"
> > >
> > >
> https://www.barbican.org.uk/whats-on/2019/event/ai-more-than-humanentre
> > >
> > > .. I saw an immersive installation which had the opposite effect on me;
> > it felt superficially pretty and silly, with nordic ambient trance sound.
> > TeamLabӮs "What a Loving and Beautiful World (2011)" - I attach a
> photo
> > for you [whoops, it's rejected] ØC to my mind had all the wrong
> attitudes.
> > I sat there for 30 minutes and felt bored, or rather, I felt it was
> offered
> > a childish and silly commercial entertaining 3D installation; folks
> walked
> > in, took a quick look and a selfie, and left again. In a review, i read
> > that it was "an endless immersive digital installation in which tumbling
> > calligraphic characters transform into animated images when touched by a
> > visitorӮs shadow. Flocks of birds, mountains, thunderclouds, cherry
> > blossom, sparks of fire, trees and raindrops leap out from the shadow of
> > your fingers, skitter across the wall and interact: itӮs enchanting and
> > mesmerising."
> > >
> > > Not sure what shadowy fingers the critic applied, but it didn't work
> > with mine. Have others here seen/experienced the work?
> > >
> > > best
> > > Johannes Birringer
> > > DAP-Lab
> > > London & Houston
> > > http://www.brunel.ac.uk/dap
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Curating digital art - www.crumbweb.org<http://www.crumbweb.org>
> <
> > [log in to unmask]> on behalf of Simon Biggs <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > > Sent: 22 June 2019 00:02:54
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Subject: Re: [NEW-MEDIA-CURATING] curating VR Art
> > >
> > > VR, or any visual medium (eg: hyperrealistic painting, iMax cinema),
> has
> > never interested me in terms of generating a strong (uncanny) sense of
> > reality through immersion and/or illusion. My interest has always been in
> > interaction and how it can render our relations, our agency and
> > inter-agency, uncanny. This seems far more transformative of our
> subjective
> > sense of self than something that is primarily ocular (as Johannes
> > suggests). ThatӮs why IӮve always worked with interactive environments
> > (usually employing immersive projection) as everyone can interact in the
> > environment at the same time, whether with other people or with the
> > synthetic elements in the environment. It is a shared experience focused
> on
> > agency rather than spectacle. That can allow a particular kind of
> > generative ontology that challenges your sense of self.
> > >
> > > AR is interesting for the same reason, especially where it is a shared
> > experience (as it can be with networked Hololens units). Everyone is in
> the
> > same (hybrid) environment and can perceive and interact with the same
> > phenomenon, whether tangible or not.
> > >
> > > Of course, you still have to work out how to make that interesting (why
> > should people interact - whatӮs the point?). The technology is not
> > interesting of itself.
> > >
> > > best
> > >
> > > Simon
> > >
> > >
> > > Simon Biggs
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > http://www.littlepig.org.uk
> > > http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs
> > > https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK
> [
> https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AGF-l78p5y4qgNZ1wjlTenqTzNJPijr8a73zlrFvpw=s900-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no
> ]<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
>
> Simon Biggs - YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
> www.youtube.com
> art works by Simon Biggs
>
>
>
> > > http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs
> Simon Biggs Home Page, University of South Australia<
> http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs>
> www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au
> Professional home page for Professor Simon Biggs, Professor of Art, School
> of Art, Architecture and Design, University of South Australia
>
>
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >> On 22 Jun 2019, at 05:17, orpheus <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> dear all
> > >> finding this discussion interesting, allow me to respond suggesting a
> > few things, and actually I've not seen much debate on these matters: it
> > might be good to hear more views.
> > >>
> > >> Adinda's experience of the exhibition made me a little sad, and also I
> > felt that this kind of waiting in queues, signing up, and waiting for a
> > turn and having to choose in fact the queue line (how do you know what to
> > choose when there are multiple isolating VR works?), would have
> frustrated
> > & alienated me.
> > >>
> > >> This made we wonder why initially, when I heard about VR works
> > returning (yes, Osmose was amongst the earlier experimental piece, I
> never
> > saw it but Char told me vivid stories), I laughed them off, considered
> them
> > unwieldy, insulating, isolating, ocularcentric, and antisocial. For my
> > dance installations, naturally, unusable.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I do like Simon's response, and I had exactly the same change of mind
> > (partial); when a collaborator offered to work with the DAP-Lab ensemble
> on
> > "kimosphere no. 4", in 2017, we deliberately created a poetic sonic and
> > tactile content/architecture (also including biophysical sensorial
> > interfaces) in a larger immersive environment (the dancers acted as
> ghosts
> > and guides, it was the audience that became protagonists), and then
> > included 4 small 3D films in the google cardboard boxes, and one VR
> (VIVE)
> > "station" on one side of the immersive environment, where those visitors
> > who wanted to also explore our virtual forest could climb inside. It was
> > not interactive (multiuser method, or with avatars) as we only had one
> > headset; but since then I have done workshops with performance artists
> and
> > designers and included the VR again in an installation that was even more
> > tactile and sensorial (we tried out the notion of "augmented virtuality"
> by
> > adding organic materials and physical objects).
> > >>
> > >> I have now also written about this, if anyone is interested, in the
> > current Theatre and Performance Design issue 5, 1-2 (2019), the Bauhaus
> > anniversary issue; and elsewhere. In my experience, the audience wandered
> > around and there were many interactions in the space, the VR-place only
> > one, and as audiences would stay for an hour or hour and a half, many of
> > them wore the goggles or observed, with interest, how the immersant
> inside
> > VE would act, move, behave. Some folks really seemed to like just
> imagining
> > the imaginary.
> > >>
> > >> I have also been inside a gallery at Moody Center for the Arts
> > (Houston) where Momoko Seto's PLANET ”Ž was exhibited: 4 swiveling
> chairs,
> > 4 Rifts, and off you go inside the 7 minute world (
> > https://vimeo.com/220965048).
> > >> Easy set up, I think people came and went. Problem might be the
> > re-charging of the batteries of the wireless sets. There was no guard, so
> > audience had to figure it all out.
> > >>
> > >> In our kimosphere performance, we did have a "conductor", our VR
> > designer Doros Polydorou had to hold the cables of the Vive set to the
> > computer and make sure the immersant would not get entangled....
> > >>
> > >> The entanglement side is sweet of course. And I gather there are some
> > strange things one can design to make your heart stop and trick your
> brain.
> > At the "Digital Materialism" workshop (Tanzhaus NRW, Dعsseldorf) last
> > month I got seasick and scared, doing a highwire tightrope act I never
> > thought would fool me, but it did. We were 5 groups of 6 people each,
> > taking turns. The designers of "The Plank" were from HSD (University of
> > Dعsseldorf). It was a workshop context, so no wider audience. I'm not
> > sure it would be reproducible as a streaming work, as in the Tanzhaus the
> > designers had set up the actual plank/highwire, with objects to retrieve
> > from other rooftop side, and there were windmachines to change the
> > temperature when the rain started..... There was also a dancer who
> > generated purple streaks inside my VE. A bit weird, a google
> tiltbrush-like
> > drawings happening around me as I'm falling off the wire.
> > >>
> > >> with regards
> > >> Johannes Birringer
> > >> DAP-Lab, London
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ++
> > >>
> > >> [Simon schreibt]
> > >>
> > >> Our research centre (Creative Computing Studio) recently hosted the
> > production of a VR dance piece. It was commissioned by the Adelaide
> College
> > of the Arts dance program and choreographed by a visiting choreographer
> > with experience with VR (Sarah Neville) to be danced by the final year
> > students on the dance program. The work they made was a 10 minute
> > interactive VR piece (in Unity) for Rift. The work was presented in the
> > foyer of the College theatre before the program of commissioned stage
> based
> > works started and then during the intermission and at the end of the
> > program. They had a number of ӨboothsӮ - areas around 4 x 3 metres in
> > size, each defined by a Persian carpet on the floor and some theatre
> style
> > retractable belts with metal stanchions, waist high around that. Each
> booth
> > had an Oculus Rift Go setup and an assistant to help people put the
> headset
> > on, take the hand controls and get started (and finish the experience as
> > well). By this means a number of people could experience the work
> > simultaneously and there was little queuing. Over a series of evenings a
> > lot of people experienced the work. Seemed to work well.
> > >>
> > >> Currently we are developing a dance work for Hololens. This will allow
> > dancers and audience members, all wearing Hololens AR head units, to
> > interact with one another and a number of computational agents visible in
> > the AR environment. In theory it will work with any number of headsets,
> > although in practice we only have four units so that will be our limit in
> > the studio. The point here though is that the experience is not for a
> > single person at one time but is multiuser and interactive between
> everyone
> > and everything (people and generated agents). It is fundamentally a
> shared
> > experience. I should also mention that the piece will be networked and
> > people at remote locations, wearing Hololens and logged into the same
> > server, will be able to join in the group improvisation. We have already
> > undertaken experiments between Adelaide and Melbourne, with no apparent
> > latency.
> > >>
> > >> In my experience VR/AR/ER/MR work best with shared activities. ItӮs a
> > matter of conceiving and developing works that function in that manner.
> The
> > idea of showing up at a conference or event and queuing to have a solo
> > experience, whilst everyone around you is looking at you doing it, seems
> > weird - unless thatӮs the outcome you are seeking. You can choose to
> turn
> > the user into part of the show, although possibly at their expense as
> most
> > people do not enjoy being on ӨshowӮ like that - indeed, many people
> > refuse to use VR when there are other people around watching. I imagine
> > there is an innate human aversion to being the centre of attention and
> not
> > being able to see those watching you.
> > >>
> > >> best
> > >>
> > >> Simon
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Simon Biggs
> > >> [log in to unmask]
> > >> http://www.littlepig.org.uk
> > >> http://amazon.com/author/simonbiggs
> > >> https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK
> [
> https://yt3.ggpht.com/a/AGF-l78p5y4qgNZ1wjlTenqTzNJPijr8a73zlrFvpw=s900-mo-c-c0xffffffff-rj-k-no
> ]<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
>
> Simon Biggs - YouTube<https://www.youtube.com/user/SimonBiggsUK>
> www.youtube.com
> art works by Simon Biggs
>
>
>
> > >> http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs
> Simon Biggs Home Page, University of South Australia<
> http://www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au/staff/homepage.asp?name=simon.biggs>
> www.unisanet.unisa.edu.au
> Professional home page for Professor Simon Biggs, Professor of Art, School
> of Art, Architecture and Design, University of South Australia
>
>
>
> > >>
> > >> [Hide Quoted Text]
> > >> On 18 Jun 2019, at 00:26, adinda van 't klooster <
> [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> dear all,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Just back from VRHAM, an interesting VR art festival in Hamburg and as
> > far as I'm aware the main one that focuses on art only. It was great to
> see
> > a variety of VR artworks but it also brought up some interesting
> questions
> > that might be of interest to people on this list to discuss. The
> curatorial
> > problem with VR art is having to overcome the fact that it is for one
> > person at a time, and thus likely involves some sort of queuing process.
> > The only reason I didn't see Osmose back in 1999 in Austria was that back
> > then the queuing system was a basic stand in line until it's your turn
> > (several hours in that case), so it's a good things that queuing systems
> > have progressed slightly. However, I don't think we are quite there yet
> in
> > terms of optimal experience.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What they did at VHRAM was create a guarded exhibition inside the main
> > exhibition. The guarded bit was where the main twelve VR art experiences
> > were exhibited. You could get in there via twelve IPAD's fixed to a wall
> > inside the exhibition space. Each IPAD was connected to one of the VR
> > artworks. There you could sign your name up to be next to experience that
> > particular VR artwork. They had a system of allowing between 3 and 8
> names
> > on this list at a time, with new slots only becoming available once a
> > person left that particular exhibit. Once you were next in the queue you
> > received a text on your mobile phone telling you it was almost your turn,
> > and again one when it was your turn to have the experience.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> This still caused large queues on busy days, as people would stand in
> > front of one of the twelve IPAD's waiting until a slot became available
> to
> > sign their name up for. Waiting half an hour to an hour just to sign your
> > name up was not uncommon. Inside the guarded exhibition space actual
> > gallery attendants were checking whether people were turning up for their
> > slots and calling out names in case people didn't come forward.
> > >>
> > >> Issues that occurred were:
> > >>
> > >> * the system didn't realise when one person had signed up for two
> > different VR artworks and their slot became available at the same time,
> > this would cause one of the two VR exhibits to be lying empty for some
> time
> > whilst there was a large queue of people outside waiting.
> > >> * people who didn't know about the sign in wall would innocently
> > spend perhaps an hour looking around the rest of the exhibition which
> > consisted of a few further VR experiences that were mostly unmanned and
> not
> > all working as they should be. Once they figured out they had to sign up
> > for the main artworks, they would then have to spend a long time queuing
> to
> > wait to sign up their name and then wait further time to have the actual
> VR
> > experience. As tickets were sold for afternoon and evening slots, this
> > meant many people might have only experienced one or two of the twelve VR
> > artworks after leaving the exhibition. They would then have to come back
> > another day to experience more artworks.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I was wondering afterwards whether it wouldn't be better to have a
> > system where you could sign in for particular times slots and do this
> > signing up online, well before visiting the exhibition, so that you would
> > know which VR artworks you were going to see and you could avoid the
> > waiting. I realise this might still bring up some issues when people
> don't
> > turn up or the technology fails and the timeslots go out of sync with
> > actual exhibition times but perhaps those could still be addressed by the
> > people on the floor and waiting would still be less then with the current
> > system. One might still have to limit the amount of artworks you could
> see
> > in one day to allow enough people access to the works but it would be
> > fairer on visitors who know beforehand how many artworks they were going
> to
> > experience for their money.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Or would it be better to simply curate this kind of exhibition through
> > VR STEAM, for people to download and experience at home on their own
> > headsets? As VR content creator that was certainly my personal
> conclusion,
> > as the wait was mostly just frustrating, but I realise that this would
> > exclude a lot of people and so the questions of how to curate this type
> of
> > exhibition in a gallery space are still very valid.
> > >>
> > >> Hopefully of interest to anyone out there. I was certainly impressed
> by
> > them quality of some of the artworks once I finally got access to them!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> best wishes,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Adinda van 't Klooster - Artist & Researcher (currently: Creative
> > Economy Fellow at Durham University)
> > >>
> > >> Mobile: + 44-(0)7412-717737
> > >>
> > >> Websites:
> > >> www.adindavantklooster.com<http://www.adindavantklooster.com>
> home page Adinda van 't Klooster<http://www.adindavantklooster.com/>
> www.adindavantklooster.com
> Adinda van 't Klooster artworks
>
>
>
> > >> www.affectformations.net<http://www.affectformations.net>
> > >>
> > >>
> ########################################################################
> > >>
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> > link:
> > >>
> >
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> > >
> > >
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