Dear all,
thank you for the info.
I have also noticed, that NVIDIA is not supporting 3D Vision activelly.
You cannot even buy the glasses in our local distribution.
I have just learn, that Plastation VR headset should be working without
much trouble both Windows and Linux and has reasonable price.
I will let you know, once I know the results.
Best regards,
Jan
On 2/1/19 3:19 PM, Pedro Matias wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thanks Philippe, for the comprehensive discussion of the problem.
>
> I may also add that about 2 years ago I inquired our local DELL reseller
> about laptops with Quadro cards (for running WinCoot in 3D stereo)
> because they had listed in the US site models that supposedly would
> work. Sadly, those models had been discontinued and replaced by a new
> series that no longer had a 120Hz display. I was unable to test whether
> stereo would still work with an external monitor but that would defeat
> the mobility purpose anyway.
>
> Also, it seems that with the new VR trend, NVIDIA is letting 3D vision
> fade away - am I wrong?
>
> Best,
>
> Pedro
>
> Às 13:20 de 01/02/2019, Philippe BENAS escreveu:
>> Hi Georg,
>>
>> My first answer would be it's a bad idea for several reasons:
>>
>> 1. PRICE/PERF
>> Laptops are always much more expensive than worstations for a given
>> performance and often you cannot reach the performances of a desktop
>> or tower computer with a laptop.
>>
>> 2. QUADRO + 120 Hz DISPLAY
>> Then if you want to use hardware stereo you will not only need a
>> _Quadro GPU_ as Pedro mentioned but also a screen with a _vertical
>> frequency of 120 Hz_ or higher and an external IR emitter. If you
>> install Win7 it might work. If you install Win10 it won't with the
>> current version of Coot (PyMol, Discovery Studio will). If you want to
>> run linux as OS then you will need in addition a _stereo VESA 3-pin
>> connector_ (between the graphic and the IR emitter) which I think
>> doesn't exists for laptop graphic cards.
>>
>> Using an external monitor won't make it either unless your laptop has
>> a DVI-D output (very few I think were manufactured and are no longer)
>> or a Display Port 1.3 or 1.4 and your monitor also has a DVI-D or a DP
>> 1.3 or 1.4 input.
>> Using a Thunderbolt 3 (TB3) output will not help either because I
>> don't think you will any monitor with a Thunderbolt input running at a
>> vertical frequency of 120 Hz. Then even 3D Club
>> (http://www.club-3d.com) does not make a Thunderbolt to DVI-D active
>> adaptor with a refresh rate higher than 60 Hz, i.e. you cannot use an
>> external monitor with a DVI-D input.
>>
>> So it not easy to have Quadro based hardware stereo on a laptop (I
>> tried at some point to use the OpenGL drivers for GeForce that were
>> available for developers and supposed to allow OpenGL 3D but without
>> success).
>> You might find old Asus or Acer laptops (intel core of the 2nd or 3rd
>> generation) with screens running at 120 Hz and built-in IR emitter but
>> they are using GeForce graphic cards. At this point you might try to
>> replace the GeForce by a mobile Quadro (if it can fit into the PCIe slot).
>>
>> Alternatively to double requirement of a Quadro and a 120 Hz monitor,
>> you could make use of the WiFi mini PCIe port of any laptop and use an
>> external Quadro GPU that you will have to supply with electrical power
>> (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CwuDbXsQck (FR) or
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq0ZE8wmv-Q (EN) ) or use some
>> commercial eGPU solution (often using the TB3 port; e.g.
>> https://www.pcworld.com/article/2984716/laptop-computers/how-to-transform-your-laptop-into-a-gaming-powerhouse-with-an-external-graphics-card.html
>> ) but with their restrictions (laptop compatibility list and I'm not
>> sure it will work under linux).
>> I haven't tested these solutions as the benefit in portability of a
>> laptop ins then lost.
>>
>> And overall I think you're better of buying any cheap second hand
>> workstation, Quadro graphic card and a 27" monitor @ 120 Hz.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Philippe
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Philippe BENAS, Ph.D.
>>
>> ARN UPR 9002 CNRS
>> IBMC Strasbourg
>> 15, rue René Descartes
>> F-67084 STRASBOURG cedex
>> +33.3.8841.7109
>> E-mails: [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>> URLs: http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/ ,
>> http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/spip-arn/
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Le vendredi 1 février 2019 à 10:11:48 UTC+1, Pedro Matias
>> <[log in to unmask]> a écrit :
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> You need a laptop with a NVIDIA Quadro card that supports quadbuffered
>> 3D stereo under Linux. I found this page
>>
>> https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/design-visualization/quadro-for-mobile-workstations/
>>
>> that may help find a laptop with the needed specs.
>>
>> For example, you can find info about a DELL laptop with a QUADRO P4200 at
>>
>> https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-notebooks/precision-7730-mobile-workstation/spd/precision-17-7730-laptop?view=configurations
>>
>> but you need to make sure the display supports 120/144 Hz refresh rate.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pedro
>>
>> Às 22:52 de 31/01/2019, Georg Mlynek escreveu:
>>>
>>> Dear all, I am considering to buy a new laptop and would like to
>>> install the latest ubuntu version and have 3D glasses. Following the
>>> discussions in the lasts years, this issue seems to be not trivial.
>>> Which setup of laptop and 3D glasses will work plug and play?
>>>
>>> And what about VR. When is coot and pymol VR ready?
>>>
>>> Best regards, Georg.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 31.01.19 10:54, Philippe BENAS wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I had an HP Z620 that was dual boot Kubuntu 14.03 and Win 10. Coot
>>>> was working in stereo mode without any problem for a year or so. But
>>>> after one of their major updates Coot crashed as soon as the
>>>> built-in IR emitter of my Asus VG278H turned on, as described Pedro
>>>> and Jan.
>>>>
>>>> My personal guess is that the new Win 10 kernels no longer accept
>>>> some direct exchanges from programs to hardware parts, probably for
>>>> safety issues. So I came to the same conclusion as Pedro: stick to
>>>> Win 7 if you want to run Coot under Windows or use a linux
>>>> distribution or dual boot workstation.
>>>>
>>>> Nevertheless PyMol was just working fine in stereo mode under Win
>>>> 10. At least until last september when I sold my Z620 for a Z820
>>>> (Kubuntu 18.04/Win7). May be PyMol developers at Schrödinger could
>>>> give their tips and tricks to Bernard Lohkamp to whom I send my
>>>> warmest aknowledgments for porting Coot under Windows.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Philippe
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Philippe BENAS, Ph.D.
>>>>
>>>> ARN UPR 9002 CNRS
>>>> IBMC Strasbourg
>>>> 15, rue René Descartes
>>>> F-67084 STRASBOURG cedex
>>>> +33.3.8841.7109
>>>> E-mails: [log in to unmask]
>>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
>>>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>> URLs: http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/ ,
>>>> http://www-ibmc.u-strasbg.fr/spip-arn/
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le jeudi 31 janvier 2019 à 10:18:42 UTC+1, Pedro Matias
>>>> <[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask]> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The problem with COOT stereo and Windows 10 is that the COOT binary
>>>> is not compatible with the newer OpenGL drivers or somesuch in
>>>> Windows 10. So, COOT runs fine in Windows 10 but crashes if you
>>>> enter hardware stereo mode. However, PyMOL works fine in stereo in
>>>> Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>> According to Bernhard Lohkamp, the Windows COOT developer, this
>>>> problem has not yet been fixed because he has no access to a Windows
>>>> 10 PC.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, stick to Windows 7 if you want to run COOT stereo on a
>>>> cheap Quadro card.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pedro
>>>>
>>>> Às 04:38 de 31/01/2019, Jim Fairman escreveu:
>>>>> I had a Windows 7 machine that would run Quad buffered stereo back
>>>>> around 2009, haven't had a chance to try with Windows 10.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019, 02:03 Jan Stransky
>>>>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I started looking into the never ending story of stereo in
>>>>> crystallography... As with our standardized linux setup we
>>>>> probably are not willing to move to X.org-world, if was
>>>>> wondering, if anybody was succesful to make stereo working in
>>>>> Windows 10. I did read some NVIDIA forum, and it seems that 3d
>>>>> vision is not very supported by NVIDIA, even for gamers... Was
>>>>> anybody able to mke it work with Geforce cards, to save few bucks?
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jan
>>>>>
>>>>> Dne 03.01.2018 v 10:42 Wim Burmeister napsal(a):
>>>>>> I answer a bit late, but I repost a message on 3D graphics
>>>>>> from Mai 2017 :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we just wanted to share our experience in finding a
>>>>>> configuration which allows to use 3D graphics under linux
>>>>>> using Nvidia GeForce 3D glasses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had quite a hard time to find a configurations which works
>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We finally used Debian linux with a xfce desktop. Other recent
>>>>>> desktops use a tiling which is not compatible with 3D graphics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The hardware consists of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * a DELL Precision T5810 desktop computer with an Nvidia
>>>>>> Quadro M4000 (8 Gbyte memory, 4 DP) graphics card
>>>>>> * Nvidia GeForce 3D Vision 2 (NVIDIA GEF 3D VISION 2 GLASSES
>>>>>> KIT) active stereo glasses
>>>>>> * a stereo connector PNY Quadro 4000 3D for the
>>>>>> synchronization of graphics card and glasses
>>>>>> * an ASUS 24" LED 3D - VG248QE display
>>>>>> * a DisplayPort-DisplayPort cable
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Nvidia linux drivers from version 367.57 can handle the
>>>>>> current version of the Nvidia glasses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For an obscure reason a direct DP-DP connection between
>>>>>> graphics card and display is absolutely required in order to
>>>>>> obtain fully working stereo. If a DP-DVI dual link adapter is
>>>>>> used, the stereo does not work on the top and the bottom part
>>>>>> of the screen. This is true for a native DELL active adaptor
>>>>>> or generic models. The exact reason remains unresolved, but
>>>>>> the solution is to use a direct DP-DP connection. This limits
>>>>>> the available choice of displays which require 120 Hz for
>>>>>> 1080*1980 screen resolution and a DP input. We have been
>>>>>> choosing a “Nvidia 3D ready” model.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There has been a considerate about of exchange about this
>>>>>> problem on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/992892/linux/partially-working-stereoscopic-effect-with-3d-vision-under-debian-linux/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The setup comes with a price tag of about 1600 € free of taxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> coot, pymol and chimera work straight without problems in
>>>>>> hardware stereo mode. The experience is absolutely great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wim Burmeister
>>>>>> Professeur
>>>>>> Institut de Biologie Structurale (IBS) CIBB
>>>>>> 71 avenue des Martyrs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CS 20192
>>>>>> 38044 Grenoble Cedex 9, FRANCE
>>>>>> E-mail: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Tel: +33 (0) 457 42 87 41 Fax: +33 (0) 476 20 94 00
>>>>>> website
>>>>>> <http://www.ibs.fr/research/research-groups/viral-replication-machines-group-m-jamin/team-03/article/poxvirus-replication-machinery-presentation/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography
>>>> Macromolecular Crystallography Unit
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>>>>
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>>
>> Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography
>> Macromolecular Crystallography Unit
>> ___________________________________
>> Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669
>> (351-21) 446-9669 (direct)
>> Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644
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>> email : [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
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>> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/labs/macromolecular-crystallography-unit
>>
>> Mailing address :
>> Instituto de Tecnologia Quimica e Biologica António Xavier
>> Universidade Nova de Lisboa
>> Av. da República
>> 2780-157 Oeiras
>> PORTUGAL
>>
>> ITQB NOVA, a great choice for your PhD
>> https://youtu.be/de6j-aaTWNQ
>>
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>
> Industry and Medicine Applied Crystallography
> Macromolecular Crystallography Unit
> ___________________________________
> Phones : (351-21) 446-9100 Ext. 1669
> (351-21) 446-9669 (direct)
> Fax : (351-21) 441-1277 or 443-3644
>
> email : [log in to unmask]
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> http://www.itqb.unl.pt/labs/macromolecular-crystallography-unit
>
> Mailing address :
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> Universidade Nova de Lisboa
> Av. da República
> 2780-157 Oeiras
> PORTUGAL
>
> ITQB NOVA, a great choice for your PhD
> https://youtu.be/de6j-aaTWNQ
>
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> https://youtu.be/UKstDCFjYI8
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