Well I suppose you and he might have differently nuanced interpretations of
the Trinity or transubstantiation. It would help I guess to brush up your
Latin, or the Northumbrian dialect of Old English. Hint; don't tell him any
ghost stories.
On 13 April 2018 at 19:09, Patrick McManus <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> ? really why??
>
>
>
> On 13/04/2018 18:40, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>
>> I wish you both well Patrick. I suspect you might have compatibility
>> issues.
>>
>> On 13 April 2018 at 16:21, Patrick McManus <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> thanks Dave will settle for the Venerable Bede
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 13/04/2018 16:15, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> Ishtar is on Crawford St, Marylebone, so you check that out yourself. As
>>>> for the rest, you'd need a Tardis augmented by a Ronald Hutton and the
>>>> Vatican Observatory at least.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On 13 April 2018 at 09:22, Patrick McManus <
>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> thanks Dave -I could not find what the pagan spring festival her in dear
>>>>
>>>>> old 'England' was called before the Christian takeover any ideas?
>>>>>
>>>>> otherwise I could keep Eostre and mention the Venerable Bede after poem
>>>>>
>>>>> Ishtar sounds my sort of goddess didn't she also do the Zombie thing as
>>>>> well ?
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers P
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/04/2018 21:04, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ishtar (pronounced Ishtar) was a sex-goddess and patron of temple
>>>>>> prostitution (according to always reliable Herodotus) and existed
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> thousands of years before the English ever decided to become a people
>>>>>> let
>>>>>> alone invented a language to call themselves after and putting the
>>>>>> occasional deity here or there into it. Remarkably enough, even a few
>>>>>> hundred years before the Old English became young, Constantine became
>>>>>> Roman
>>>>>> Emperor and started speaking Greek instead of Latin and decide people
>>>>>> should celebrate what we call Easter. He didn't call it that because
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> didn't speak English, which still didn't quite exist. Neither then did
>>>>>> anyone in York, speak English that is, rather than exist, as they were
>>>>>> busy
>>>>>> pronouncing Eboracum, where he was first proclaimed Emperor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later on the Vandals came and snuffed out learning and the Dark Ages
>>>>>> began
>>>>>> and everybody forgot what they already didn't know. Fortunately some
>>>>>> monks
>>>>>> thought they'd better keep records still, in case they might one day
>>>>>> get a
>>>>>> tax refund, so they started copying anything they still had, even if
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> meant nothing to them. Much much later on, the Brothers Grimm and the
>>>>>> Webmasters of Waco became anxious about where All the Missing History
>>>>>> Was,
>>>>>> much like physicists with dark matter, so they set about re-inventing
>>>>>> it,
>>>>>> using the monks' transcripts as clues in a cryptic crossword written a
>>>>>> language they didn't know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never let Ishtar and Inanna alone in the same planet together, let
>>>>>> alone
>>>>>> room. talk about Joan Crawford and Bette Davis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 April 2018 at 16:12, Patrick McManus <
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave thanks I was wondering simple old me about Ishtar Sumerian
>>>>>> goddess
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inanna sort of thing but I am sure others would know more
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/ancient-pagan-
>>>>>>> origins-easter-001571
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/04/2018 10:25, David Bircumshaw wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately Patrick Eostre is not the origin of the Easter
>>>>>>> festival.
>>>>>>> In
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> English the name probably derives from it, but the festival is a
>>>>>>>> separate
>>>>>>>> matter and in most of cultures there is no verbal connection. All
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> known about Eostre is contained in a reference by the monk Bede, a
>>>>>>>> name, a
>>>>>>>> month, and nothing else. The Brothers Grimm speculated it was
>>>>>>>> connected
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the Germanic Ostara but that is pure philological conjecture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Virgin births, sacramental drinks etc were common in cults
>>>>>>>> throughout
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Levant and Eastern Med. The Christian festival of Easter though
>>>>>>>> derives
>>>>>>>> from Jewish Passover, not a pagan source.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Bede, c 700 (the only historical record of Eostre)*Eostur-monath
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> name which is now translated Paschal month, and which was once
>>>>>>>> called
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were
>>>>>>>> celebrated
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name,
>>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *The names of Easter in other languages:*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In nearly all Romance languages
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages>, the name of the
>>>>>>>> Easter
>>>>>>>> festival is derived from the Latin *Pascha*. In Spanish, Easter is
>>>>>>>> *Pascua*,
>>>>>>>> in Italian and Catalan *Pasqua*, in Portuguese *Páscoa* and in
>>>>>>>> Romanian
>>>>>>>> *Paşti*. In French, the name of Easter *Pâques* also derives from
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Latin
>>>>>>>> word but the *s* following the *a* has been lost and the two letters
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> been transformed into an *â* with a circumflex
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumflex_in_French> accent by
>>>>>>>> elision
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elision>. In Romanian, the only
>>>>>>>> Romance
>>>>>>>> language of an Eastern church
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Orthodox_Church>, the word
>>>>>>>> *Înviere*
>>>>>>>> (resurrection, cf. Greek Ἀνάστασις, [anástasis]
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Greek>) is also used.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Albanian <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_language>,
>>>>>>>> although
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Romance language, borrows the Latin *Pascha* as *Pashka*. The
>>>>>>>> holiday
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> frequently referred to in the plural, *Pashkët*. Similarly, Filipino
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_language> adopted the
>>>>>>>> Spanish
>>>>>>>> term
>>>>>>>> into *Pasko* (i.e., *Pasko ng Pagkabuhay*, "Pascha of the
>>>>>>>> Resurrection").
>>>>>>>> The term, however, is more often used for Christmas
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas>.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In all modern Celtic languages
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages> the term for
>>>>>>>> Easter
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> derived from Latin. In the Brittonic languages
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittonic_languages> this has
>>>>>>>> yielded
>>>>>>>> Welsh
>>>>>>>> *Pasg*, Cornish <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_language>
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Breton
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breton_language> *Pask*. In Goidelic
>>>>>>>> languages <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages> the
>>>>>>>> word
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> borrowed before these languages had re-developed the /p/ sound and
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> result the initial /p/ was replaced with /k/. This yielded Irish
>>>>>>>> *Cáisc*,
>>>>>>>> Gaelic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic> *Càisg* and
>>>>>>>> Manx
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manx_language> *Caisht*. These terms
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> normally used with the definite article
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definite_article> in Goidelic
>>>>>>>> languages,
>>>>>>>> causing lenition <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenition> in all
>>>>>>>> cases:
>>>>>>>> *An
>>>>>>>> Cháisc*, *A' Chàisg* and *Yn Chaisht*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Dutch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language>, Easter is
>>>>>>>> known as *Pasen
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Pasen>* and in the North Germanic
>>>>>>>> languages
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Germanic_languages> Easter is
>>>>>>>> known
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>> *påske* (Danish and Norwegian), *påsk* (Swedish), *páskar*
>>>>>>>> (Icelandic)
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> *páskir* (Faeroese). The name is derived directly from Hebrew
>>>>>>>> Pesach.[18]
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Easter#cite_note-18> The
>>>>>>>> letter å
>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85> is pronounced /oː/, derived
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> older aa, and an alternate spelling is *paaske* or *paask*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In Russia, Pascha (*Paskha*/*Пасха*), is a borrowing of the Greek
>>>>>>>> form
>>>>>>>> via Old
>>>>>>>> Church Slavonic <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Church_Slavonic
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> .[19]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Easter#cite_note-19>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12 April 2018 at 10:07, Patrick McManus <
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug I sometimes wonder if Christians has any festivals or history
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> not copied from somewhere
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the Zombie Jesus and all that drinking of communion sacramental
>>>>>>>>> blood
>>>>>>>>> /wine and eating of bodies ?? virgin births phew
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> all that forgiving of sins was a good sales pitch and all that life
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> heaven ever after !!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cheers P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/04/2018 16:41, Douglas Barbour wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, I’d definitely take the chocolate eggs…
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But you know those older christians, they knew what they were dong
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> they took over those pagan holidays… (just because the present day
>>>>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>>>>> have forgotten their history…).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 11, 2018, at 3:12 AM, Patrick McManus <
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> EOSTRE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> when he
>>>>>>>>>>> pointed out
>>>>>>>>>>> to the Christians
>>>>>>>>>>> that Easter
>>>>>>>>>>> was in fact the
>>>>>>>>>>> pagan festival
>>>>>>>>>>> of Eostre
>>>>>>>>>>> they took it
>>>>>>>>>>> rather badly
>>>>>>>>>>> and firmly
>>>>>>>>>>> tied him
>>>>>>>>>>> to a cross
>>>>>>>>>>> and pelted
>>>>>>>>>>> stoned him
>>>>>>>>>>> with very solid
>>>>>>>>>>> hard and painful
>>>>>>>>>>> chocolate eggs
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> pmcmanus
>>>>>>>>>>> s287
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> spellcheck trying to change Eostre to stereo!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Douglas Barbour
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://eclecticruckus.wordpress.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Recent publications: (With Sheila E Murphy) Continuations &
>>>>>>>>>> Continuations
>>>>>>>>>> 2 (UofAPress).
>>>>>>>>>> Recording Dates (Rubicon Press).
>>>>>>>>>> Listen. If (UofAPress):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no real
>>>>>>>>>> world, my friends.
>>>>>>>>>> Why not, then
>>>>>>>>>> let the stars
>>>>>>>>>> shine in our bones?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Robert Kroetsch
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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