A big yes from me to changing places toilets at caravan and camping sites!
Sent from my iPhone
> On 12 Jan 2018, at 18:03, Darryl Smith <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Hi Alan
>
> Hope you're well?
>
> To add to the discussion:
>
> A number of disabled people would welcome shower/cleaning facilities within the same space (Changing places at caravan/holiday parks anyone?
>
> In an ideal and should space allow I would prefer an approach of creating sufficient accessible facilities such that it minimises the "judgement" as to whether someone is disabled enough to use the "disabled" facilities.
>
> Creating as much choice/flexibility as possible is key that allows single parents of either sex to supervise their young ones as well as supporting privacy and dignity for those that do not wish/want to shower communally for whatever reason.
>
> Best wishes
> Darryl
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jane Simpson Access
> Sent: 12 January 2018 17:37
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Wheelchair accessible showers
>
> Interesting debate, however, some do wish to have gender specific areas, which may be a religious or cultural requirement.
>
> The type and level of facility will vary considerably and neutral gender specific facilities/ family facilities may be appropriate here, just wanted to mention that neutral gender facilities is not the answer in all cases.
>
> Regards Jane
>
>
> Jane Simpson
> RIBA & NRAC Consultant
> T: 01484 423501
> M: 07777 607239
> : @JSAccess07
> www.janesimpsonaccess.com
>
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Vincent West
> Sent: 12 January 2018 16:42
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Wheelchair accessible showers
>
> Hi Alan,
> I would say that the block may comply with ADM but not with the Equality Act 2010 because the provision as between disabled and non-disabled people is not equitable as you have suggested. We are talking about an accessible facility and a major component determining whether a facility is accessible or not is whether it is available for people to use when needed, which is why the RADAR key scheme was introduced to guarantee that accessible toilets were in principle reserved for disabled people.
> In producing the DDA and EA there has always been recognition that simply building according to sketch plans in the ADs does not in any way guarantee access and inclusion and it is still necessary for builders to ensure that what they build does not discriminate even if it ‘complies’ with ADM.
> In meeting the requirements of the EA there is also a need to consider other protected characteristics and separating either toilets or showers into gendered provision may introduce discriminatory barriers to trans-gender people, so if cubicles can be arranged so that there is no need to have gender-specific facilities this would help
>
> Regards,
>
> Vin
>
>
>> On 12 Jan 2018, at 13:34, Hunt, Alan <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
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>>
>>
>> Thanks Vaila, very good point.
>>
>> There are three shower cubicles in each of the male and female toilet / changing areas and there is one stand-alone wheelchair accessible combined toilet and shower facility in the same corridor.
>>
>> I was going to suggest that they consider combining two of the three shower cubicles in each area to make an enlarged family/ambulant disabled shower as you have suggested.
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Alan
>>
>> Alan Hunt
>> 01437 775148
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Accessibuilt list [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf
>> Of Vaila Morrison
>> Sent: 12 January 2018 12:42
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Wheelchair accessible showers
>>
>> Does that mean there’s only one non-gendered loo/shower as well as being the only accessible?
>> As a family of 4, who do a lot of camping, we much prefer mixed facilities anyway as often it’s dad with daughter or mum with son or both of us trying to shower both the kids which makes gendered open plan washing facilities tricky.
>> Could you suggest reducing the number of gendered facilities and adding more accessible so there are multiple options for both families and disabled campers? Space planning wise that can often be just as efficient as you need less circulation and lobby areas.
>> Vaila
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 12 Jan 2018, at 11:17, Alan Hunt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> I have been asked to comment on a building regulations application for a new shower block to be built at a caravan park.
>>> They have proposed separate male and female toilets with three enclosed shower cubicles in each area.
>>> They have also proposed a separate wheelchair accessible facility with a WC. I would appreciate any comments or advice and have listed below my considerations so far.
>>>
>>> 1. In the proposed designated male/female toilets it is possible to use the showers and still leave the toilet facilities available.
>>> 2. In the proposed combined wheelchair accessible toilet/shower if one of the facilities is used it means that the other will be unavailable.
>>> 3. The ‘disabled’ shower facility is also likely to be used by non-disabled people, particularly at busy times, because it is desirably larger and private.
>>>
>>> For these reasons the ‘disabled’ toilet/shower is more likely to be used by a non-disabled person reducing the choices available to disabled people compared to non-disabled people.
>>>
>>> I can’t however find any reference in Part M that says ‘disabled’ shower facilities should be separate from the toilet provision but the Sport England Guidance referred to in AD M for such facilities suggests one combined WC/Shower room for small scale club houses would be OK.
>>>
>>> Any advice or comments gratefully received.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> ----------End of Message----------
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