Jamie, I agree we should move on. My attempts at pressing you for a clearer explanation of what you meant by suggesting that “practice” was not as academic as “theory” seem to have fallen on deaf ears, resulting in you now making one of your famous asides to the list members here suggesting to them that it has bored and dismayed them and was dull and fruitless. Apart from being patronising it shows a person who is used to “changing the subject” when put in a tight spot.
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Jamie McKendrick Wrote:
Then there’s no point in us proceeding, David. You’re unable to explain what you meant by ‘academic poetry’ and I’ve made it more than clear that the academic status of creative writing is of little interest to me though I’m quite happy with it being taught within an academic context, and indeed am paid to do so. So I have the unfair advantage of knowing what I’m talking about.
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If others haven’t fallen asleep or turned away in dismay at this dull and fruitless exchange, I wondered if it could be opened up a bit? Some people are against poetry being taught in these courses, for a variety of reasons. I said in an earlier post that I think things of use can be taught. Some of the work is of an editorial kind, probing for weaknesses in phrasing, rhythm, even concept. Some of it is encouragement. The side more related to the study of literature is asking the students to read a number of poets (and other material) carefully, and this ‘theoretical’ element varies from teacher to teacher, from course to course, and judging by some of the US students I’ve taught it seems less stressed over there.
‘Things of use can be taught’ is not especially helpful and it also implies other things that can’t be taught. Talent, for example, cannot be taught but it can be fostered and maybe developed.
The model of art school only gets us so far, because with lithography, etching, oil, graphite etc. there is more evidently ‘technical’ knowledge that can be passed on and practised but the analogy might still hold.
So what are the main objections?
My own reservations are not to do with it as a subject within the academy at all, but to do with the disadvantages that those who have chosen another route to writing may now face in a publishing context. I don’t understand what the earlier talk of ‘favouritism’ really means (though somebody might be able to give examples) unless it is related to this.
Jamie
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